[survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

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[survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby dyspraxiasurvey » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:07 pm

Hello,

I suffer from dyspraxia and have been diagnosed at 20. I may also have comorbid conditions.

When I was seeking a diagnosis, I have notices that many Dyspraxia characteristics are similar to other disorders characteristics, most specifically : Autism.

From what I have read, Dyspraxia has high rates of comorbidity (mostly Dyslexia and ADHD) but usually do not include Autistic characteristics such as Repetitive Behaviours, Social Impairment (arguable) and Obessive Behaviours or narrow interests. Yet, some websites put these characteristics on their liste. Other claim that Dyspraxia is another name for Non Verbal learning Disorder or that most dyspraxics have NVLD instead of Dyspraxia (but apparently, NVLD is not considered as a real disorder everywhere).


According to my doctor, my mild dyslexia and dyscalculia are just a consequence of my spatial difficulties and are quite common among dyspraxic people but do not mean that I have the three conditions.

ADHD seems to be common too but not always diagnosed because it can be considered as a symptom of dyspraxia according to some specialists.

I have read many parents describing their dyspraxic children and while some of them only show the obvious characteristics (motor skills, speech delay), other seemed very close to Autism (enough to actually being suspected of having asperger before being diagnosed as dyspraxic).


Therefore, I was wondering what was the link between Autism and Learning Disorders. Many people in my family have a learning disorder. I have two dyspraxic uncles, one of them showed autistic traits during his childhood but now appear to be normal (and no longer dyspraxic), the other only have mild dyspraxia. It made me think that people with severe dyspraxia were more likely to develop autistic traits or overlapping conditions such as dyslexia or ADHD.

However, I have no proof of that theory.

Which is why I would be grateful if some of you were to answer to this survey.<- The first part is about your diagnosis and the other conditions you may have because I thought that it would be useless to prevent anyone with another condition to reply.

No email adress or name are asked in this survey, it's totally anonymous.

Please, note that English is not my native language so if there is something you do not understand, tell me.

Thank you.
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby JamesStanley » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:41 pm

I have taken the survey it was fine there we i few things on final question table thingy that i didnt know what they are so i put not sure as the answer.

Hope this helps
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby galexy96 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:48 pm

JamesStanley wrote:I have taken the survey it was fine there we i few things on final question table thingy that i didnt know what they are so i put not sure as the answer.

Yeah thats what i done aswell, i tried to answer as best as i could
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby wm1995 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:17 pm

Same as above. Just on the family thing, my grandmother has dyslexia and my great-uncle is schizophrenic. Hope it is useful!
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby dyspraxiasurvey » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:01 pm

I am very sorry for the last question, I wanted to put some clear questions about it on a third page but had to pay for that and I really do not have much money to use for a survey.

The results are very interesting though. I have forgotten what I was about to say but thank you.

I have also read some of your threads and I am not impressed to see many different profiles.

I am aware that autistic traits among dyspraxic people could have an explanation other than autism but find it interesting to see how many of us have them. And I can tell you that some autistic people are less autistic than some dyspraxic-only people according to this survey. It's amazing.

I really think that all of these neurological disorders are linked. There are many dyslexic people in my family, one of them also had ADHD, some people are also gifted while other have memory issues, and my brother has some autistic traits (or at least, used to be the epitome of Aspeger Syndrome until we turned 9 and he started having friends) but no learning disorder... I do not know whether they are all hereditary or not because some people are the only one with a disability in a family but it seems to me that neurological differences tend to be common in some families though they may vary.

I also believe that many females are not being diagnosed because some specialists feel that it is "male only" though there is probably a good reason to explain why males are more likely to have a learning disorder, Autism, or extreme IQ (higher or lower than average).
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby wm1995 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:25 pm

I don't know an awful lot about dyspraxia, but I think it is on a spectrum with other disorders such as autism. I am sure that one of the more senior members will be able to correct me if I am wrong though. The thing that makes me wonder is what causes these disorders. Is it something to do with structure of the brain, or genes, or the formation of the brain, or something else?
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby dyspraxiasurvey » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:13 am

From what I have read, dyspraxia is mostly considered as a "specific learning disability" and is not on the Autism Spectrum (however, like many conditions, it has its own spectrum).

It is a comorbid condition among autistic people (especially among Aspies) and a great majority of dyspraxic people have a comorbid condition (~50% dyslexia, then ADHD and Autism, I have the feeling that dyscalculia is still underdiagnosed).

I wish I could have asked more questions because it seemed to me that the degree of gravity of one dyspraxia could explain some of the autistic characteristics but it would have been great to see whether I was wrong or not.

There are some traits that we definetely share with Autistic people (and with ADHD people) whether we have a comorbid condition or not, however some dyspraxic-only people had surprising results.


What I know for sure is that usually, the difference made between autistic people and dyspraxic people is that autistic people do not seek social interraction and are not social at all, however, I have seen that it is not true. Many autistic people suffer from the fact that they have social difficulties (some of them are even extravert) and some autistic children were very very social as kids but it "did not work".

The overlapping of both condition is highly confusing.
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby Dizzy D » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:26 pm

have taken the survey it was fine there we i few things on final question table thingy that i didnt know what they are so i put not sure as the answer.
this happened to me but i pu disagree as the answer (p.s it's not mail only :D I'm a girl... why the :D ??)
Being dyspraxic dosen't make life hard, it makes it interesting
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby dyspraxiasurvey » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:59 am

I am a girl too, no it's not male only, it's just that statistically 75% who have these disorders are male. :mrgreen:
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby parnassus » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:54 pm

Bear in mind that the people who use DT are perhaps more likely than most to have social and communication difficulties - this forum is a good way of making friends and communicating, and it is a lifeline for people who have problems with these things in real life. We do have some members who do not see themselves as having social difficulties, and I notice that they tend to post much less.

Regarding the question of co-morbidity, I think it is important to remember that diagnoses differ from country to country. In the UK, the dyspraxia diagnosis is used to cover a wide range of symptoms affecting memory, communication, and social skills, in addition to problems with co-ordination and spatial perception. In America, dyspraxia refers very specifically to problems with co-ordination, and the term 'Non-Verbal Learning Disorder' is used to cover the other difficulties that typically attract a dyspraxia diagnosis over here in Britain. In Scandinavian countries, the most widely used diagnosis is DAMP (standing for 'deficits in attention, motor control, and perception'). Somebody from this forum could be seen by three different professionals and get all three of these diagnoses - that doesn't mean that they have three separate conditions. The symptoms of dyspraxia and related conditions are so closely interwoven that sometimes no descriptor fits a person perfectly. It's not like getting diagnosed with the flu, or a disease that has a precise checklist of symptoms. The existence of so many diagnostic terms says more about the system we use for categorising and understanding such difficulties than it does about the difficulties themselves. It's a bit like constellations of stars. The constellations as we know them don't actually exist - astronomers invented them to make it easier to identify and talk about certain stars, giving meaning to the skies. The constellations themselves (Orion, Andromeda, etc.) are fairly arbitrary groupings, but they serve a useful purpose. It's the same with diagnoses like dyslexia and dyspraxia.

Some professionals do consider dyspraxia to be on the autistic spectrum, or a component of autism. According to the Dyspraxia Foundation, dyspraxia should not be diagnosed in autistic people unless it is exceptionally severe, as autistic people are expected to have some dyspraxic difficulties. It is part of having autism. As far as dyspraxia itself goes, I remember hearing Dr Amanda Kirby say that roughly 75% of the dyspraxic children she sees at her clinic have social and communication difficulties. These might be qualitatively different from the difficulties experienced by people with ASD, but there is a distinct overlap. It is the norm rather than the exception.
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby dyspraxiasurvey » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:13 pm

parnassus wrote:Bear in mind that the people who use DT are perhaps more likely than most to have social and communication difficulties - this forum is a good way of making friends and communicating, and it is a lifeline for people who have problems with these things in real life. We do have some members who do not see themselves as having social difficulties, and I notice that they tend to post much less.


Do not worry, I know that, people who use forums are usually introverts though there are also many extroverts depending on the kind of forum, I have seen that a lot of people in general had or have social difficulties, even when they are highly social and have lots of friends, they just tend to more rejected than people who are rarely on the Internet or forums, though some of them do not communicate like this either.
I was just curious because I only know two other dyspraxics in real life and they are totally different.

Regarding the question of co-morbidity, I think it is important to remember that diagnoses differ from country to country. In the UK, the dyspraxia diagnosis is used to cover a wide range of symptoms affecting memory, communication, and social skills, in addition to problems with co-ordination and spatial perception. In America, dyspraxia refers very specifically to problems with co-ordination, and the term 'Non-Verbal Learning Disorder' is used to cover the other difficulties that typically attract a dyspraxia diagnosis over here in Britain. In Scandinavian countries, the most widely used diagnosis is DAMP (standing for 'deficits in attention, motor control, and perception'). Somebody from this forum could be seen by three different professionals and get all three of these diagnoses - that doesn't mean that they have three separate conditions. The symptoms of dyspraxia and related conditions are so closely interwoven that sometimes no descriptor fits a person perfectly. It's not like getting diagnosed with the flu, or a disease that has a precise checklist of symptoms. The existence of so many diagnostic terms says more about the system we use for categorising and understanding such difficulties than it does about the difficulties themselves. It's a bit like constellations of stars. The constellations as we know them don't actually exist - astronomers invented them to make it easier to identify and talk about certain stars, giving meaning to the skies. The constellations themselves (Orion, Andromeda, etc.) are fairly arbitrary groupings, but they serve a useful purpose. It's the same with diagnoses like dyslexia and dyspraxia.

Some professionals do consider dyspraxia to be on the autistic spectrum, or a component of autism. According to the Dyspraxia Foundation, dyspraxia should not be diagnosed in autistic people unless it is exceptionally severe, as autistic people are expected to have some dyspraxic difficulties. It is part of having autism. As far as dyspraxia itself goes, I remember hearing Dr Amanda Kirby say that roughly 75% of the dyspraxic children she sees at her clinic have social and communication difficulties. These might be qualitatively different from the difficulties experienced by people with ASD, but there is a distinct overlap. It is the norm rather than the exception.


I did know about the Dyspraxia Foundation because that was one of the first thing I read when I was trying to know more about dyspraxia. However, I did not know that there could be so many differences according to the countries, from what I know, in France they focus on the motor skills to diagnose dyspraxia though the differences between the individuals are taken into account, social skills do not seem to matter and apparently most dyspraxics have "no memory issue" (though I have read some parents talking about it since everyone is different), they are just "pathologically clumsy" (coordination, dysgraphia, etc).

However, I have never seen anything about Dsypraxia being an ASD, just highly linked with Autism though some specialist consider apparently that learning disorders are very closely related to Autism and that both tend to co-exist among a family. I think some of us can be qualified more or less as autistic while others would be more normal beside their dyspraxia, but as you said it may also depend on one's country.

Anyway, I agree with most of your message, this survey is mostly based on curiosity since I have seen many different people but also Aspies who wondered whether they were aspies or dyspraxics in reality.
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby Dizzy D » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:57 pm

statistically 75% who have these disorders are male.
I herd it was around 80%
Being dyspraxic dosen't make life hard, it makes it interesting
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby Super Nekou » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:29 pm

I filled in the survey.

For the record, when it comes to autistic symptoms, I seem to suffer from a vast majority, and have been noticing more recently than before. Be that from Dyspraxia or a generally undiagnosed condition, I dont know. I was also sent for a dyscalculia test but the special needs woman who tested me didnt understand that was why I had been sent to her so I never got a clear answer. Partially my fault for not explaining correctly anyway. I was placed in a lowest percentile for mathematical skill from the test carried out.
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby parnassus » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:00 pm

Dizzy D wrote:
statistically 75% who have these disorders are male.
I herd it was around 80%


I don't think it is either. Roughly 1 in 4 people who are diagnosed with dyspraxia are male. It is likely that girls are simply not being referred for assessment, as deficits in physical co-ordination are not picked up as easily. It's a cultural expectation that a boy will excel on the football field; a boy who is abnormally clumsy will stand out much more than a girl with exactly the same set of difficulties. The same is true of autism. In his books The Complete Guide to Asperger Syndrome and Asperger's and Girls, Dr Tony Attwood points out that in his clinical experience ASD tends to manifest differently in girls - which makes it harder to spot. Also, a girl who is unusually quiet and withdrawn is less likely to attract notice than a boy who behaves in the same way, due to the way that passive demeanour has always been seen as a particularly female quality.
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Re: [survey] Link between Autism, Learning Disorders and Autism.

Postby dyspraxiasurvey » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:03 am

parnassus wrote:
Dizzy D wrote:
statistically 75% who have these disorders are male.
I herd it was around 80%


I don't think it is either. Roughly 1 in 4 people who are diagnosed with dyspraxia are male.


Yes, which makes 75% of diagnosed dyspraxic male (and I think it's about 80% for Asperger depending on the stats). I just gave the statistics I found about it, I cannot take into account the people who are not diagnosed or those who have no idea they have the condition because officially they are unfortunately ignored.

I know that females tend to be underdiagnosed for everything, or at least I guess because I've seen many girls who were helped for a difficulty but they were never given a diagnosis because the specialists or teachers thought that it was "temporary, she will grow out of it" while boys with the same difficulties had a diagnosis.

But there are also some males who are not diagnosed.
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