Abortion

Feel free to debate any issues you wish here. Warning: The topics discussed and their content may on occassion offend some.

Are you against abortion?

yes
13
46%
no
10
36%
no, but the upper time limit for abortion should be lowered
5
18%
 
Total votes : 28

Postby C » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:32 pm

Hermionefan5 wrote:You have a point, Charlotte. I can't say that if I got raped and pregnant that would not make me feel bad about the baby. It is so sad to think that if my sister, who is 14 got raped, she could get pregnant and have to deal with those complications. It is hard to say if someone that age should have to deal with having a baby, I agree. Maybe abortion should only be allowed under such special circumstances as rape, but as Vicky said, many women claim to have been raped in order to get an abortion. I don't think it is right for 13 year old girls to have babies and I didn't mean for it to come out that way. I have personally never gone through any of this so I was just reflecting on my belief that babies have a say too.

Also, I think that if I were to have a child through rape, I would never ever tell them that they were a "mistake"! To me there is no child here on earth who is not supposed to be here!


That's okay. It's thinking about things like this that make me feel abortion is really not a simple, black or white issue. And I completely agree about no child on this earth being a mistake. All children are precious and cannot help who their parents are!
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Postby Danni » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:48 pm

I had an abortion a year ago. It was the hardest decision I have ever made, but I think I made the right one for me.

I have a lovely daughter, who will be 2 on Boxing Day, and I certainly would never use abortion as a form of contraception. If by some chance I became pregnant now with a viable pregnancy (very unlikely as I have had a coil fitted) I would keep the child.

Last year, I discovered I was pregnant after being admitted into hospital. I was in the middle of a gallstone attack, and they did the normal check before sending me for x rays they told me I was pregnant. I was surprised, as I hadn't actively been trying for a baby (I didn't know until then I was ill and had decided I'd let nature take its course when it came to babies after Sammie). I was told then that it appeared my gallbladder was full of gallstones, and that hormones from the pregnancy would make it worse, with there being a high possiblity that my gallbladder would have ruptured, which would kill both me and the baby. They left the decision up to me, reassuring me if I were to keep the baby I'd be closely monitored, and if necessary they would remove the gallbladder while pregnant (although that would also carry risks ending the pregnancy).

Gallstones cause the most extreme pain I have ever felt, which is much worse than childbirth. The painrelief that they could provide me while pregnant would be limited, and with having a child at home (who up to this point I was still breastfeeding) I decided that it would be better to abort the baby. They carried out a viginal ultrasound (they couldn't see anything on the normal one) and discovered that I was 5 weeks pregnant, which meant it had been 3 weeks since consception).

I had to wait a week before I could have an abortion, as the fetus was just too small to do so at that time. A week later I took the first of two tablets, this one to kill the fetus. 2 days later I took a tablet that started the contractions, that felt just like a normal period.

Before I had the abortion I had to have counselling, and was seen by two different doctors and a nurse. It would have been easier to just keep the baby! I haven't regretted that decision, especially as a few months later I had to have emergency surgery to remove my gallbladder as it was very close to rupturing!

I think the time you're allowed to have an abortion for should be reduced to 12 weeks unless there's a medical reason, be that physical or mental. The counselling I had to do is a must, as it checks all your reasons for having an abortion, and they won't recommend you have one unless you are really certain that is what you want. I think banning them altogether would be extremely damaging, and should be avoided. Hopefully you lot won't call me a murderer like some people have!
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Postby parnassus » Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:54 pm

I do not think you are a murderer, Danni. I think you are a woman who had to make a very difficult choice.
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Postby Thirteen-thirty-seven » Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:54 pm

You are not a murderer. Like Vicky said, you had a very tough choice. I agree with abortions for medical reasons.

I am very sorry that that happenned to you. ((virtual hugs))
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Postby pinkparrot » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:48 pm

Danni, you're not a murderer. It was a difficult situation.
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Postby Black_Haired_Angel » Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:21 pm

carrie wrote:Im completely against it because of my own religious beliefs (im a strong christian) but can understand why someone would in certain circumstances and agree with c on that


same with me!!!
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Postby Columbia » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:18 pm

I personally support abortion on demand until birth, and I think it should always be paid for by the NHS, however I think there needs to be more support for women who genuinely WANT to give birth but don't feel able to because of poverty and circumstances: we need longer, better paid maternity leave, more government funded childcare and more flexible working hours. I also think that the best way to bring abortion rates down is to make contraceptives widely avaliable and teach kids comprehensive sex education, it certainly worked for the Netherlands.
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Postby towildhoney » Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:10 pm

I think it is wrong to support abortion on demand until birth as I don't think it is right to abort a child when there is a chance if it was delivered even prematurley and it could live and be adopted by someone who does want it. (obviously medical need is a diffrent case) I think allowing abortions say at 8 months is totaly untenable and wrong.
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Postby fuzzy » Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:23 pm

Columbia- i disagree with you- if you cant afford to have kids, the logical thing to do would be to not- if you cant pay for kids, dont have 'em, simple as that.
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Postby Joss1991 » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:35 am

im not against it if the person who is pregnaunt has the abortion a soon as possible or if the child is going to be born with a life threatning illness.
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Re: Oops I meant to say yes, I am against it!

Postby Columbia » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:51 pm

C wrote:
Hermionefan5 wrote::oops: I meant to say "yes" because I am AGAINST abortion at ALL COSTS!!! I don't care whether people are abusing people and getting them pregnant and the girl wants the abortion because of that. There's always adoption for those kinds of things. I have read true stories of how girls have gotten pregnant on date-rape and then kept the baby and said that they love the baby so much and would never give it up!


Well good for them but the majority of girls who have had the misfortune to not only be raped but also fall pregnant with the rapist's baby aren't like that!

What about a case of a thirteen-year-old girl, still a child herself, who suffered the tragedy of rape then found she was pregnant? Now surely you wouldn't blame this girl if she didn't want to keep the baby and sought an abortion? Even if she went through with the pregnancy and put the baby up for adoption, that would still put her child body that hasn't yet grown through nine months of physical agony for nothing. And adoption isn't as simple as just handing the baby over, either, there's all kind of emotions that go with it once the baby is born. And what about if, twenty years down the line, this now thirty-three year old woman, happily married with children, is tracked down by her lost child and does not want to see them. And what about the child then? Would you want to hear you were the product of your dad raping your mum?

If the mother of a baby born through rape is married, the marriage would probably disintegrate as the husband will probably not want to bring up a child that's not only not there's but is a rapists's baby. Furthermore, the mother may find herself resenting and hating the baby.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are mothers out there who have kept their rapists baby and I admire them. I'm sure their children are doing fine and, as I don't think I could go through with an abortion myself, I may well keep the baby if-heaven forbid- I was raped. It's just that it's not as simple or black and white as to say that if someone's raped they should keep the baby and just get it adopted. Rape is not like getting pregnant accidently or after a one-night-stand, rape is forced and the woman should not have to suffer any more than she already has.


For all of you who oppose abortion "AT ANY COST", what would you do in this true case from Latin America?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2789279.stm

In February 2003, a nine-year old girl was raped and made pregnant in Costa Rica. Her parents wanted her to have an abortion, she wanted to have an abortion, however the government and the Catholic Church wouldn't let, instead wishing to force her to carry her rapist's child to term and bring it up herself. How generous of them. :roll: Anyway, the girls family fled to their home country of Nigeria and two doctors agreed to perform a termination on the girl. She's currently happy and healthy.

But what would YOU have wanted her to do in this situation? Force her to carry her rapist's child to term regardless of the effects on her physicaland mental health? Or would you have let her terminate?
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Postby Columbia » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:00 pm

towildhoney wrote:I think it is wrong to support abortion on demand until birth as I don't think it is right to abort a child when there is a chance if it was delivered even prematurley and it could live and be adopted by someone who does want it. (obviously medical need is a diffrent case) I think allowing abortions say at 8 months is totaly untenable and wrong.


I'd allow them longer than 8 months(as I said, up til birth) because I believe that as long a the fetus is inside the woman's body, depnding on her body for survival, it's her right to decide what happens to it. Adoption DEFINETELY isn't an easy choice: you have to give birth to a child, see it, maybe even hold it in your arms and then give it away, spending the rest of your life wondering where it is, is it happy, is it well taken care of? Not to mention the risk of the child seeking you out in the future. Abortion offers finality in this department, so I support it up until birth. Although do respect your opinion.
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Postby Columbia » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:05 pm

fuzzy wrote:Columbia- i disagree with you- if you cant afford to have kids, the logical thing to do would be to not- if you cant pay for kids, dont have 'em, simple as that.


I'm a little confused by your points about "not wanting them-dont have them"-most abortions take place on women who weren't trying to get pregnant, but who had a contraceptive failure. And I just wanted to make a point about the stance of supporting abortion demand up until birth: even under current legislation, most pregnancies are terminated before 12 weeks. Most of the abortions that take place past the current limit of 24 weeks are for reasons of fetal abnormality, rape and anger to the mother's health, and if abortion on demand was legal until birth I don't think this would change.
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Re: Oops I meant to say yes, I am against it!

Postby Columbia » Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:10 pm

Hermionefan5 wrote::oops: I meant to say "yes" because I am AGAINST abortion at ALL COSTS!!! I used to be a little bit for it, but I did a project with my best friend on it in High School and now I am against it because we saw all those horrible pictures from the internet and books showing dead babies with their heads severed and their organs taken out! It's a horrible thing, I don't care whether people are abusing people and getting them pregnant and the girl wants the abortion because of that. There's always adoption for those kinds of things. There are so many people in this world who can't have children for medical reasons, but really want one and it's not fair that people who can have them are terminating their child's life when it could be adopted by a nice, loving family. For those wanting to abort I think that children change people's lives and that child can change your life for the better if you just give it a chance at having a life. I have read true stories of how girls have gotten pregnant on date-rape and then kept the baby and said that they love the baby so much and would never give it up! And who knows, that little baby could be the next Johnny Depp, Bill Gates, JK Rowling, Mia Hamm, MLK Jr, Rosa Parks, Lance Armstrong, etc. Would you want to give up that person's life?


The fetus could just as easily turn out to be the next Hitler, Stalin or Pol-Pot; there's no way of knowing.
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Postby Black_Haired_Angel » Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:10 pm

a toughie.

i say im against it beign used as some oman do as a form of contracetpiont but i also think it's ok liek say someon gettign raped or if they feel the defect that the child is liekly to have might limit the child's life span then its ok.

personally i couldnt get rid of a child by abortion but sayin that i'v never been in tat situation!
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