teenage 'packs'

Feel free to debate any issues you wish here. Warning: The topics discussed and their content may on occassion offend some.

Do you agree

Don't agree with crowds
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80%
Do agree with crowds
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20%
 
Total votes : 49

Postby Guest » Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:56 pm

I totally agree with everything you said Parnassus.

My point was that everyone in this country is not 'poor' by definition. When experts define poverty, they are expressing it in terms of how widely wealth is ditributed. This gives a totally misleading picture IMO.

In rich countries like Britain, there seems to be a temptation to believe that if the parents are lazy or not working, their children should still have the latest trainers and computer, with an expensive house. If we allowed this, what kind of society would we become?

Take inner city areas. My nan's generation were much poorer than today's inner city inhabitants. Despite this, people used to feel proud of their area and there was a much greater sense of social cohesion.

In her flats, people used to take it in turns to scrub the balcony and pavements outside! Can you imagine today's East Ender's doing that, or anyone anywhere in the UK for that matter? When I go back there, you see how much the area has deteriorated. People p*** in the lifts and write graffiti on the walls. If they kept their area nicer, would it look like such a shi*ho**? Like I said, a lot of poverty these days is self-inflicted.

I don't apologise for not losing sleep over some kids not having an X-box or Nike trainers. I come from a very working class family: we survive on my father's wage and he's a factory worker. I have a very small collection of clothes, we have one car for 5 people, and I wore my last trainers (which I got quite cheap) for about 8 years. I've never felt poor though, because I've got the love and support of my family and I realise that I have enough food to eat etc. That's enough for me.


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Postby Thirteen-thirty-seven » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:52 am

I think that people who behave in this way often (though not always) behave in this way because they haven't got a sense of purpose. That doesn't make it right. However, it does mean that if we give people a sense of purpose, the problems will diminish. I think there should be more projects to involve young people in community service.

As for the point about poverty, Vicky is right. Life-threatening poverty is very rare in Britain. The only people who are so poor that their lives are in danger are the homeless, and they aren't the people taking part in these things.

Some people in Britain do have very low incomes and have very limited opportunities because of this. It is sometimes self-inflicted, other times it is because the people live in an area with few jobs, or where the only available jobs are very poorly paid. However, we have a benefits system which ensures that nobody starves (unless they're homeless, because homeless people have no addresses and so can't receive benefits.)
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Postby Guest » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:34 pm

I was shocked to find out that my dad has only earnt a total of £17,800 pounds in the last year. :? God knows how we survive because there's 5 of us - all adults - and he is the only wage earner. We also have a sizable mortgage as well. :?

It's strange because I don't feel disadvantaged at all. We have an old banger (about 12-15 years old) and we have to budget all of the time but I barely notice it to be honest. I just feel very grateful to have such a supportive and loving family.


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Postby mattie » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:02 pm

I think a lot of it depends on educational opportunity more than anything. I'm fortunate to live in a nice area with good schools. A few years ago I went to college in a not so nice area and the difference was enormous! The schools/colleges in less well off areas get less funding from the government and I found the teachers had much lower ambitions for their students: they seemed happy if they just scraped a pass.

I think the key to eradicating poverty/slum areas is to improve the education system. At present, there are far too many poor schools in some areas IMO. This would be much more beneficial than giving handouts, which only encourages a 'dependency culture'.


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Postby Thirteen-thirty-seven » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:37 pm

I agree. The touble is that schools are funded by LEAs rather than central governemtn. This means that some schools have less money per pupil than others.
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Postby Taradino_Cassat » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:38 am

Well in my opinion I feel akward when I'm alone, my group of misfits have a meeting place we meet at at lunchtime everyday. We talk about random stuff from Video games to Anime, we are all trying to teach ourselves how to draw manga and we share our art sometimes. The discussions aren't people yelling over the other for attention but you don't excactly have to raise your hand to talk, it's somewhere in the middle. Sometimes on Friday we all go LAN gaming, we're not 'sheep' because we all have our own oppinion on whatever we decide to discuss. So I'm all for "Packs" of teenagers getting together.
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Postby Thirteen-thirty-seven » Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:37 am

By "packs", I think they meant people who congregate and are rowdy and violent. Nobody meant that anyone who is in a group is there top cause trouble.
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Postby parnassus » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:37 am

Esther is right. The word 'pack' has a more negative connotation to it - the kind of thing you're talking about would probably be termed a 'group'. There is discussion about the beneficial nature of such groups earlier on in the thread.
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Postby Taradino_Cassat » Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:42 am

oops :oops:
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Postby parnassus » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:53 pm

Don't worry about it. :) This thread is a bit long for you to trawl through if you don't have much time.
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Postby Ross Millar » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:52 pm

There is a link between social deprevation in inner city areas and the NEDs \ Spides \ Chavs. There is a severe mismach of social problems within the UK.

- Scotland has social problems in the former industral areas due to the closure of industry in the 1980's by the tory government. Prevously prosprous areas were left desimated by the lack of jobs within the local area. Many teanagers in these areas turned to crime.

- Problems similer to Scotland are also seen in parts of Wales due to the closure of coal mining in 1985.

- Parts of northern England also saw similer problems

- Problems with in Nothern Ireland which were mentioned prevoulsly.

---

Children throughout require an identity and a social "purpose". as humans we have a desire to label everything (Smart, stupid, artistic, friendly, intresting , weard , poor , rich ). If a child hasnt been socially labeled or labeled incorrectly this inturn may lead to a misplaced identity as such.
They may go on to create there on identity. The problem is that they seem to all turn out the same!! :wink:

---

I dont have a problem with people and groups. If you preceve a group as a threat to you then you are going to have problems, its called self preservation but sometimes if you let it it can take over and cause you major problems.

Not all groups are threats, i like to socialise and walk in a group and if anyone had a problem with me walking in a then i think it is a problem with them that they may need to address. Me and my group are not a threat to anyone. I only become a threat to someone if they precieve me as a threat. The bucky drinking white baseball groups (NEDs) tend often to be harmless if you know how to handle them.

Showing any signs of discomfort towards groups i.e. averting eye contact and shuffling past

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Postby Clare » Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:47 pm

I hate people who follow crowds (no offence ment). I also hate stupid chavs who go round calling me a greebo/emo/goth or anything else that pops into their tiny brain! I can't stand it when people try to stereotype me. Just cos i listen to emo/rock/metal and wear black jeans and studded belts it doesn't mean i need to be stereotyped. Just get lost yeah? And yes i realise that i said "stupid chavs" but lets face it, it's chavs who do the stereotyping and not the so called "greebos". And also calling people "dirty f***ing greebos" what the hell?? I wash every day thankyou. Just thought i'd get that out.

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Postby Ross Millar » Sun Jul 09, 2006 10:34 pm

non taken but I dont follow a group. Im a very independently minded person unlike NEDs. If you see a group as a problem then they do become a problem. Be very careful not to judge to soon, you might be suprised.

If i was out with a group of m8s i wouldent like to be seen as a NED by other people. Grouping is what people do. There only a threat when you make them a threat.

I hate sterotyping 2! People commenting on how teenagers cause problems. Im a teenager and i dont cause problems!

If people have problems with groups then thats something people personally need to deal with. The only person threatning you most often is yourself. People are not going to stop grouping because you dont like it!
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Postby parnassus » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:04 pm

There only a threat when you make them a threat.


I don't think that is true. A few nights ago Esther (Thirteen-thirty-seven) was walking home through the park. She saw a couple of men who looked as though they had been drinking standing ahead of her, but she decided to walk past normally and not make a big fuss. Because she was wearing a salwar-khameez (Pakistani clothes) they started shouting, "White Muslim slut!" at her. One of them stuck out his foot to trip her up and tried to grab her. She was frightened then, so she began to run. The men gave chase.

She was angry and quite shaken when I spoke to her about it on the 'phone. She didn't make those men a threat. They were a threat.
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Postby kitty_cute » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:19 pm

I don't think that is true. A few nights ago Esther (Thirteen-thirty-seven) was walking home through the park. She saw a couple of men who looked as though they had been drinking standing ahead of her, but she decided to walk past normally and not make a big fuss. Because she was wearing a salwar-khameez (Pakistani clothes) they started shouting, "White Muslim slut!" at her. One of them stuck out his foot to trip her up and tried to grab her. She was frightened then, so she began to run. The men gave chase.

She was angry and quite shaken when I spoke to her about it on the 'phone. She didn't make those men a threat. They were a threat.


:shock: That's horrible. I would be really shaken up.

I know a few friends who walked through an estate, where the dress code is basically, baseball cap, white addias trainers, and track suits. If you don't wear those requirements, you get beaten up, because your not a 'chav'. A few of my friends were inncocenty walking through, wearing their usual converse and jeans, and a gang came from around the corner, and just headbutted them. One of my friends, had a tooth knocked out, and had to have a replacement.
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