Rent control-- your thoughts and feelings

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Rent control-- your thoughts and feelings

Postby Page » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:02 am

How do you feel about rent control?

Personally, I despise it because if rent control is in effect, everyone ultimately loses. I regard rent control as being inherently bad and it is usually passed by well-meaning politicians with socialist tendencies that in reality have no conception about economics and finance. The reason for this is simple:

Suppose I owned a large apartment building. Normally, I can raise rents to keep up with the cost of living as well as make a decent profit (which is why I would invest in real estate in the first place). Under this system, I get signifigant income by providing housing, and what is left after property maintenance expenses is mine to keep. My tenants win because they get a nice place to live even if i have to raise their rent.

Suppose rent control is passed. Under rent control, I can no longer raise rents in my building for as long as it exists (the only weay around it would be to destroy the building and make a new one, which is impractical). As the cost of living goes up, I can't raise my rents to keep up, so I lose money on the property or at best break even. Not to mention, I would also have to pay property tax on this, thus hurting me further. Since I can't afford to keep the place nice, the building eventually turns into a slum. My tenants end up paying a low rent to live in a flop house. Everybody loses.

This is why I don't like rent control and will actively fight to keep from getting it enacted. I plan to start investing in real estate very soon, and I'm lucky enough to live in a city where rent control has been on the ballot and has been defeated about 5 times. Fortunately, the current trend is moving toward unregulated rent, so it may not be something that I constantly have to be concerned with.


Government has no idea how to properly manage business-related matters (politicians have no understanding of business, are incredibly stupid, or both) , so I feel that governemnt and business are best kept as separate as possible.


What are your feelings regarding this?
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Postby happy_go_lucky » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:31 pm

it should be community owned all buisness all property owned by the workers for the workers no longer screwed by landlords who steal their money and leave them with barley enough to live on no more factory bosses who make massive profit of the workers labour where as the worker is paid enough to live on and only that capitalism is nothing but theft you steal the benefits of another persons labour
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Postby happy_go_lucky » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:35 pm

a link to a good comic on capitalism http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index. ... 7&hl=comic
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Postby Page » Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:43 am

So you advocate full-out communism, then? By making everyone economically equal, you only make everyone equally poor.

Socialistic/communistic economic systems only serve to destroy any means for people to get ahead. Look at Russia during the stalin years-- Stalin had to use fear of punishment to force the system to work. Look at China during the greeat leap forward-- peasant farmers were forced to make steel instead of food, and millions died from famine. communism looks good idealistically, but it seldom works in the real world because people by nature are not a collectiveist species. When we try to live inside a proverbial anthill and attempt to function as a colony, bad things tend to happen.


When people are starving to death in the streets they are more apt to worry about themselves and their families rather than the common good. Most communistic countries are brutal dictatorships where people have no freedom, are constantly oppressed, and where human rights violations are rampant, if not sanctioned by the government. Since Communism doesn't have a good track record, do you seriously want it?

Most landlords are decent people, not greedy tycoons. It's not smart from a business standpoint to bleed your tenants dry; they'll only go somewhere else and you will only cut off your own livelihood. By investing, I'm trying to produce passive income so that I'll no longer need a job and I can live in perfect financial freedom. This is hardly oppressive since there's really nothing stopping anyone from doing this; most of the time the process is started with borrowed money.

Also, from what I've read, you fail to understand the symbiotic nature of workers and business. Both need the other to survive. The blue collar workers need the white collar executives/investors to provide jobs and housing, and the white collars need the blue collars to provide labor and services. Without one, the whole system falls apart and everyone loses.

PS: there's a big misunderstanding in the comic-- most of the time mission-critical stuff for businesses (like the machines referenced in the comic) are bought with borrowed money/venture capital, not with money taken from the profits because it would take far too long to raise enough money that way. Therefore, the workers have no real connection with it. ) Just to clear that up...
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Re: Rent control-- your thoughts and feelings

Postby Thirteen-thirty-seven » Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:14 am

Page wrote:Suppose rent control is passed. Under rent control, I can no longer raise rents in my building for as long as it exists (the only weay around it would be to destroy the building and make a new one, which is impractical). As the cost of living goes up, I can't raise my rents to keep up, so I lose money on the property or at best break even. Not to mention, I would also have to pay property tax on this, thus hurting me further. Since I can't afford to keep the place nice, the building eventually turns into a slum. My tenants end up paying a low rent to live in a flop house. Everybody loses.


If the governement makes it so that the maximum possible amount of rent rises with inflation, that doesn't happen.
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Postby happy_go_lucky » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:03 pm

also i wouldnt call stalin a communist when soviet russia was a capitalist palnned economy with a police state and i ask you to name one communist country with a brutal dictator as you put it the workers dont need the bosses to survive how to they benefit from being leeched of and the comic is accurate the workers would have produced the machinery not from his factory but the proletariat in general the capitalist does not produce any wealth workers do workers create products workers transport products to be sold workers sell products workers create all wealth capitalists on the other hand create no wealth they simply oversee the creation of this wealth
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Postby Thirteen-thirty-seven » Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:44 am

I don't mean to be rude, but can we please all stick to the original topic?
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Re: Rent control-- your thoughts and feelings

Postby Page » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:37 pm

Thirteen-thirty-seven wrote:
Page wrote:Suppose rent control is passed. Under rent control, I can no longer raise rents in my building for as long as it exists (the only weay around it would be to destroy the building and make a new one, which is impractical). As the cost of living goes up, I can't raise my rents to keep up, so I lose money on the property or at best break even. Not to mention, I would also have to pay property tax on this, thus hurting me further. Since I can't afford to keep the place nice, the building eventually turns into a slum. My tenants end up paying a low rent to live in a flop house. Everybody loses.


If the governement makes it so that the maximum possible amount of rent rises with inflation, that doesn't happen.


It doesn't matter. I feel as though the governemnt is overstepping it's proper authority in things like this, the market should help determine the rent price.
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Postby happy_go_lucky » Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:30 pm

because screwing other people over is so the right thing to do :roll: right of course any answer to my post by the way
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Postby Page » Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:33 pm

happy_go_lucky wrote:because screwing other people over is so the right thing to do :roll: right of course any answer to my post by the way


I fail to see how making a profit on a commodity like housing is screwing people over.
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Postby happy_go_lucky » Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:14 pm

houses built by workers then sold by capitalists too other capitalists who will then charge workers in the majority to live in this accomodation at extortionate prices much higher then the level to maintain these buildings damaging these peoples incomes livlihoods and ability to acheive a decent standard of living
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Postby Page » Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:03 am

happy_go_lucky wrote:houses built by workers then sold by capitalists too other capitalists who will then charge workers in the majority to live in this accomodation at extortionate prices much higher then the level to maintain these buildings damaging these peoples incomes livlihoods and ability to acheive a decent standard of living


Having to pay for anything essential (like food, medical care, etc) would also damage a worker's livelihood with that logic, so what's your point? Do you expect everything to be provided at cost? Do oyu expect landlords to charge rents at the break-even point? The whole point of real estate investing is to make a profit.

To 1337: Having the rents rise with inflation isn't enough. Suppose something expensive breaks in the building. Obviously, as the landlord, it would be up to me to get it fixed. I should be able to spike rent temporarily to compensate without having to absorb the cost myself.
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Postby happy_go_lucky » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:44 am

why shouldnt the workers control their own housing this way things could be done at cost it would vastly improve their lives or housing could be provided by the state this way costs would simply be carried by the governing body housing should be free everyone needs shelter
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Postby Page » Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:49 pm

happy_go_lucky wrote:why shouldnt the workers control their own housing this way things could be done at cost it would vastly improve their lives or housing could be provided by the state this way costs would simply be carried by the governing body housing should be free everyone needs shelter


From what i've seen, the government can't even keep the roads in California in decent shape. The governemnt is so bound by red tape and bureaucracy that nothing will ever get acomplished, and even if anything is built, the quality will be vastly inferior to comparable housing built by the private sector. (look at the infamous housing projects in the inner cities in the USA--things are always broken there and it's months before anyone fixes it) The governemnt is not set up to build and manage property, that is not it's original conceived function. Asking it to do so is a recipe for disaster. Not to mention what it would do to taxes, which are quite high enough in the States... I despise taxes even more than rent control.

Also, having to rely on the governemnt for every little thing is not good-- it robs you of your self sufficience and freedom. I am quite capable of taking care of myself, I don't need the governemnt to be involved in my life very much at all.

also, the workers should not control the housing they built simply because it does not belong to them.. they were hired to build it, that's all. They received fair compensation for their time and labor, it makes no sense that they should be entitled to more.
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Postby happy_go_lucky » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:39 pm

right where to start i dont want to write a palemic but im afraid it is liabel to happen hmm ah maybe ill start with the first paragraph seems the appropriate place the inefficencys of the US government well the US government is run by a capitalist dictatorship desighned to maxmise the profits for private industry the government is their to make sure this goes along without a hitch it also serves by using a voting system to appease many dissenting voices within its workers it is inefficeint because everything is done to maxmise profit for the few at the price of the many now to the houses being infirior well that would be daft because youd be building the same houses as the private sector with similar desighns mind theyd probably be more ecologically freindly mainly because cost cutting measures wouldnt be used also better materials would be used so the houses would last longer as the building industry wouldnt be trying to create buisness for itself also the cost of the materials would be less of a factor so things like cheap flamable asbestos ridden insulation probably wouldnt be used to cut building costs whilst contracting for much better quality materials to turn a higher profit and as for higher taxes why shouldnt the rich of your nation pay more to support it buisness tax could be increased mind id have buisness run and paid for by the state but lets say this is a social democratic model which is about the level im willing to explain tonight so that buisness could be taxed more heavily sure theyred be a less of a profit but this doesnt nessacaryly mean theyre needs to be detromental effects on the workers maybe the share holders would be willing to take less of a revnue and when i use the word willing i mean told to and as for the government being involved in your life im afraid to tell you it allready is it sets the program for your education it decides what foods are safe for your consumption surley it would be better if all these decissions wherent taken in the name of profit but in the name of people and do you think the workers shouldnt be in control of the housing they build you think their pay is anything on the eventual price of the living space of course it isnt these people are wage slaves paid enough to live whilst the few take massive profits of the backs of their labour theyre not paid a decent compensation for theyre labour theyre paid no where near taht if they where paid that the profits or the house would be all theirs similar to the style of the co-op's
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