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Re: Homosexuality

Postby druchi » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:23 pm

Would homosexual marriage destroy the sanctity of marriage?

My thoughts: no you can still get drunk and marry a hooker huzzah! the sanctity of marriage is saved!

No in all seriousness though what do you guys think about marriage/civil partnerships?
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Remus » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:47 pm

Personally I don't mind at all about gay marriage/civil partnerships. Honestly does it really matter whether it is male and female, male/male or female/female. As long as the two individuals are happy with it, who cares?
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby madame_tigre » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:20 pm

I have no problem with gay marriage. Homosexuals should be treated equally and deserve the same chance of happiness as straight people.
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Postby babooshka2002 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:44 pm

Spoon wrote:As far as the nature vs nurture debate goes, I'm not particularly for either. I think it's all so much more complicated. I mean, gender is social and biological sex is physical then it just messes it all up. As soon as trans people are thrown in to the mix (whose bodies may be different to their genders) then you start to ask which people are attracted to, the body or the gender, the physicality or the mind? There are a million different way of being a man or a woman. I'd argue that it's a spectrum and that man and woman are just roles that people live in within society. Everyone has a different sort of body, we don't all have the same shape bodies, or genitals or anything and everyone has a different level of femininity and masculinity so what exactly are we all attracted to? Boxing people in to gay and straight totally discounts the wide variety of people that live in the world. There's millions of types of people, not just 2 - we're not just attracted to 'same' or 'different' or 'both'.

I like this way of looking at it.

I'll present to you a story which confuses a lot of people.

My dad. He was born in <year>. He moved schools a lot when he was a kid. He never felt quite right in his gender role - he wasn't a boyish boy and never fit into any group. He probably had ADHD. He always fancied girls. My mother was his second girlfriend. They were married for 23 years. All this time, my father was attracted to girls but would also look at girls due to being interested in the clothing they wore. He had a bit of a flair for fashion and bought lots of clothes for my mother. He also had a bag of makeup and would dress as a woman for Comic Relief day. He would do my makeup whenever we had a non-uniform day at school and when I started my periods, it was my father who explained to me what was happening and my father who bought sanitary towels for me.

Towards the end of the marriage, Dad had a nervous breakdown and became a depressed alcoholic. He was like this for a few years. My mother divorced him during this time, for other reasons. He started to recover, and after much counselling to sort out problems in his head, he started to wear female clothing. Eventually, she came out as trans and started living as a woman. That was in 2006. She started taking testosterone supressers and female hormones in 2008, changed her name legally in 2009. All this time, she was searching for a woman to be with.

Then she met B. She was bowled over. She's been with B now for many months and they are very happy together. My dad is completely head over heels in love with him.

B was born A, a girl. He is transitioning to male, just like my dad is transitioning to female. Neither of them have had any surgery yet, though the female hormones that Dad takes have given her a very womanly shape - at least, as far as is possible given the huge effect testosterone had when she was a boy. B is gaining a deeper voice, due to the testosterone.

So! My dad is a straight woman. Or is she a gay man? Or is she a gay woman? Or a straight man?

People can tie themselves in knots trying to figure this one out. Personally, I don't bother. All I know is, my dad adores B and B adores her.

On the subject of religion. Dad used to go to church every week. But the vicar told her not to come to the service she loved. He said the children had been asking questions. He said families had threatened to leave the church. He warned Dad of "causing the little ones to stumble" and for anyone who knows the Bible, that is a serious thing. The Bible says that if anyone causes little ones to stumble, it would be better for him if he had a millstone tired around his neck and thrown into the sea. It's a massive transgression. He said that "for the sake of the Gospel" would Dad please not come as her any more.

There is an awful lot of stuff being thrown at the Catholics in this thread, but this church is a liberal, welcoming, Anglican church. Or so I thought. Dad doesn't go to church any more. If the vicar thought about it properly - being a true believer - he should be concerned for what God will say to him when he dies. He pushed my dad away from the church. The idea that the children would have a problem with it is laughable. Children are highly adaptable and they are also self-centred. Not in a bad way, it's just how they are. All they care about is what affects them and all they would need is a short description of gender dysphoria. The problem wasn't the children, it was their parents.

I'd also like to say, my mum is a Christian, a much bigger Christian than my dad was. She sings in the choir, helps out with cell group leadership and is always ready at her workplace to pray with people who ask for it (but only people who ask for it, don't worry, she doesn't pressure anyone). She is appalled by the vicar's behaviour and thinks he was completely and totally out of order to say what he said. So. Christians in general are not the problem - Dad still has friends who attend church. Plenty of Christians are perfectly fine with GLBT people. Plenty of Muslims are fine with GLBT people. Obviously there are plenty of Christians, Muslims, other faiths and atheists who are not fine with GLBT people and would rather they didn't exist.

(Edited by me to remove names - actually fairly horrified at myself that I wrote this with the names in, I just didn't think... I do that a lot. :( )
Last edited by babooshka2002 on Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby babooshka2002 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:20 pm

Fortnox wrote:There's another factor in homosexual culture. "Scene gays" that try their best to be ridiculously iffeminate, dress in a certain recognisable way and join a sub-culture that makes them constantly stand out in a crowd not part of that sub-culture. Does this help or hinder the homosexual cause as a hole?

Mmmm, I don't think all gay men who speak in that effeminate way are doing it on purpose. I know a 14 year old boy - the poor thing sounds like Alan Carr and I really don't think he's doing it on purpose.

I went to school with a guy who everyone thought was gay from when he was 11 (we were later shown to be right - he is). He would often go to a high pitch when he spoke, he giggled a lot, squealed and flapped his arms about - not in a dyspraxic way, in a gay way. He had no concept of being attracted to anyone at that age, attraction hadn't come into his life yet, but he still behaved and spoke as a stereotypical effeminate gay man.

Perhaps some gay men put it on, I wouldn't know, I couldn't speak for all gay men. I think it is annoying, like Alan Carr and Julian Clary's voices are annoying. I can't help it - in me they spark off the same irritation as some American voices do. Certainly not all, but some American voices really grate on my ears and it's the same kind of feeling with some 'gay' voices. I'm sure that if I had a gay friend who spoke like that, I would very quickly get used it to though.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby babooshka2002 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 2:28 pm

Macha wrote:My opinion on this, and many other subjects (religion, political views, etc.) is this:

I'll respect your opinions if you respect mine. I don't mind gay people. What I do hate is the in your face type gays, like one I met at a disco, who everytime a guy sat down, he came over and started gyrating himself, dancing WAY too close and generally being a pain. Likewise, I have a problem with religous people who make statements like "Gays should be shot".

I'd say the same about straight men. There are loads of horrid Neanderthal types cruising clubs and they'll come onto a woman at every opportunity. I call them squids, because their slimy hands are everywhere, especially if they're drunk. Yuck.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Dizzy D » Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:13 pm

I think people should just stay out of other peoples business and let them get on with there lives. It's there choice not there's, at the end of the day they should lead there lives and let other people get on with there's. (I have a friend who's gay he's totally awsome...Like a big brother! :lol: )
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Dan » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:54 am

I know a few gay guys and the majority of my female friends are bisexual. I've never had problems with any of them and find it quite amazing that people still think it's wrong.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Alice » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:43 pm

I don't even know what I am. I assume straight, but then I asumed asexual before that. I could be bi, I don't know and it's not realy relevant to my current situation since I'm in a relationship with a guy.

It seems to be more of a spectrum anyway, I have a friend who says she's about 60% straight and another one who always goes for guys because he understands them better, neither of them would identify as straight but they're not completely bi either. This seems to realy bother my parents. Mum says I'm exadurating how many people I know who aren't straight, and if I keep insisting I'm not, and Dad says we're just at an age where people get curious. Bixexuality in general seems to bother my Mum, she can't really accept that more than a handful of people are not a member of one of the two defined groups in her head.

I would get disconcerted if a friend I thought was straight was gay or bi, but not for the reasons everyone assumes. Recently, one of my friends who I had thought had no interest in boys in that way started going out with another friend. It was very disconcerting beacause it a) changed my model of how our group is structured and b) changed my model of her, who I knew quite well, significantly (or, more acurately that aspect of her). It's not that I have a problem with any orientation in itself, I just don't like unpredictable changes in the way I perceive people behave. I'm wondering if that's perhaps what causes a lot of homophobia. Mabye people get upset because their veiw of a relationship has to be ajusted and so does their aproach to the topic, but they don't realise that the issue is so simple.

Then again, I'd slow and socialy awkward, and I have an unusual love for predictability/security, so mabye other people don't have that problem, and homophobia is caused by something else.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Spoon » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:42 am

Gender and relationships are quite literally sold to us. Think of all the unnecessarily gendered products out there!
My favourite example is the little mini body sprays you can get. The men and women's ones are exactly the same shape but sold completely different.

Ladies mini impulse - leaves you smelling delicate and fresh and it conveniently fits in your handbag!

Lynx bullet - pocket sized sex appeal!

In order for them to make money, they need to make us believe that there is a certain way of doing things. Just walk in to a card shop on valentines day and you'll see what I mean!

I think a lot of people when confronted with homosexuality are confronted with the idea that relationships stem from love and desire, and not from the ideals that are taught to us by the media, co-corporations and to some degree religion and education. If you buy in to that stuff, it's going to mess with your head a bit.

Also, if you're used to being bombarded with images of straight couples, seeing your same gendered friends snogging is likely to cause a double take!

The gay marriage situation is just ridiculous. What's so scary about having the same word and document for all forms of loving relationships? In America for sure there's ulterior motives. Denying gay couples marriage means denying adoption rights, access to joint health insurance, visas and a million other things.
Equality is clearly just too expensive.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby MontyDyspraxia » Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:16 pm

I have a very simple view, which is this:

If it makes them happy, I'm happy.

And anyway, it's none of my business.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby JamesStanley » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:55 am

I agree with that Beth
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Postby Elessar » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:28 pm

Fortnox wrote:Bladen, you're not actually arguing against anyone! We're all in agreement right now. I'm hoping for someone with a different opinion to find their way in, I want to know what justifies homophobia.

In the case of hardline religious people, it would be the Book of Leviticus.

Fortunately for me, I think what anyone gets up to in their private lives that harms no-one and is totally consensual, is entirely their own business. They aren't harming me, or anyone else. If the Almighty has a problem with it, then He's got plenty of time to remonstrate.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby haemopath_bro » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:56 am

druchi wrote:Would homosexual marriage destroy the sanctity of marriage?

My thoughts: no you can still get drunk and marry a hooker huzzah! the sanctity of marriage is saved!

No in all seriousness though what do you guys think about marriage/civil partnerships?

i'm all goods with it.
here in little old new zealand, the marrige equality bill has passed its first reading and the mp who created the bill is coming to my school to have an open floor debate with a member of the opposing stance and i think party (louisa wall is a labour mp (the for) and the other person is hopefully from national or one of the associating partys).

and of my four closest friends, only 1 is straight.

i personlly choose guys (i'm a girl) but if a close female friend asked me out, i'd say yes and i'm up for experimentation and i had a girl crush last year.

as for the religeous thing, i'm a recent convertee of shinto and i've read loads about it and it says nothing about who you should be with or anything about anything to do with sex.
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Re: Homosexuality

Postby Luna_is_so_cool_like » Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:58 am

One of my best friends is gay, we all support him in his decision. I'm alright with homosexuality, I don't really see what difference it makes. At the end of the day, we're all human, right?
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