Abortion

Feel free to debate any issues you wish here. Warning: The topics discussed and their content may on occassion offend some.

Do you agree with abortion

Yes
4
10%
No
15
37%
Is up to individual
20
49%
Don't really know
2
5%
 
Total votes : 41

Abortion

Postby hana-banana2 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:36 pm

I'm doing abortion as coursework in school and i just wanted to know what the general opinion is. To be honest i'm undecided, possibly in the middle, on the fence. i can see both points of view.

Help me out plz!!!! :?: :oops:
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Re: Abortion

Postby chocolatefudgecake » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:45 pm

Personnally, I don't think it's right, but i can see why people may want to and i think idividuals should have the choice.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Remus » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:46 pm

I don't really have an opinion on it. It's quite a grim subject.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Steph » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:53 pm

I don't agree with it personally but I'm no dictator so I say it's up to the individual.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Hermionefan5 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:35 pm

I don't think it is a good thing, but also, I don't think that some people should be parents because some people are just not fit to be good parents so...it's kind of a predicament. I think if you do think of it it might be better to give the kid up for adoption if you don't think you are a fit parent, but I can't judge people on that so I chose "It depends upon the person."

If you want a good show that talks about this a little, watch "Juno." It debates the pros and cons of adoption, keeping the baby and abortion. Personally, I don't think it's good for teens especially to keep the baby but maybe that person would be a good mom or dad so I can't judge. It depends on the person and where their maturity level lies.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Bladen » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:37 pm

Its very touchy because its a subject that interferes with morals and religion to some extent. some see it as murder. Some don't.
But me? I say let people think what they want and stay out of people's business, even if we get all these useless chavs popping out kids like rabbits. Its horrible to think that possible life can be halted and taken away yet there's reason behind everything. Except chavs. They're just stupid and should be Sterelized for the greater good of moral society! :!:
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Re: Abortion

Postby k9ruby » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:00 pm

I am an Agnostic and I agree that abortion shouldn't be taken lightly. There is convincing evidence that the unborn feotus can feel pain, and in one respect I feel that can be cruel to reflect on a human being that cannot fend for itself.

In a ideal world, If we knew for definate that the feotus can feel pain, the method of doing so should be painless.

However, I believe it has its place when the women could be put in grave danger if she was to give birth, or the baby would of had a very severe disability that it would face a life of pain and suffering, with no quality of life. I am NOT saying killing disabled people is right. Let me make that very, very clear. But if to let the baby endure a life of terminal pain and suffering, with no quality of life, and no feeling of happyness or pleasure, then it may be the kinder thing to do. The same applies if say, a young girl was raped, and giving birth to the baby would severely damage her mental or physical health.
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Re: Abortion

Postby hana-banana2 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:05 pm

Thats basically what i said in my coursework, i think i'm kind of on the fence with this issue, i can see both sides of the arguement. i too am agnostic, and because i live in northern ireland abortion is completely illegal.
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Re: Abortion

Postby monkey » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:34 pm

this is a difiuclt supbject. I do nto agree wtih it. but difficult situatiosn can make a choice very difficult. But when ever I look at my neice I am gald seh is alive. it was onyl a mistake by doctors taht saved her life. the day she was suposed to be killed was oen of the most horribel days of my lfei. I woudl never want to go thgouh the waitign again. we were all prayign hopeign that there woudl be a way to save her. we were all relived when the docotrs made there mistake. we did nto know it was a mistake until she was born. they said it was 2 weeks to late fro a abotion. when she was bron we foudn out taht they had miscalclated when she was supsoed to be born by 2 weeks. I am so gald seh was given the chacne at life.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Alice » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:20 pm

A child is a child. I think that it's acctually quite sick that we live in a socioty where someone can have no rights simply because they are too young and helpless.

I understand there are circumstances where a parent may decide that it is what is best for them and the child, but in almost all circumstances I think it is wrong. You cannot kill a baby because you didn't really want one, or because it takes more looking after than other babies or for any other reason for that matter, once it is born or even for a while before. I don't understand why pepole can say "this is a person, but this isn't yet", about two pepole who are only a week or so apart.

Obviously where a mothers life is at stake she doesn't have a responsibilty to keep it, any more than anyone has a responsibility to risk their life for the possible survival of a stranger, and in any case, usually the chances of going to term are virtually none. In the case of rape, I would say that it was still wrong to kill the baby for what it's father did. However, I can see that it could be a very traumatic time for the mother even if she gave the child away at the end, so I would definatley understand if someone did have one.

I wouldn't judge someone for having someone, as it usually a very hard decision with no very good outcomes, but I still think it's wrong.
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Re: Abortion

Postby Brian » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:21 pm

Absolutely not, Abortion will never be made legal in Ireland which is the way I like it. Its only legal if the pregnat woman's life is in danger from the pregnantcey a
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Re: Abortion

Postby parnassus » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:52 pm

I oppose it, although I would like to make it quite clear here that there is a difference between seeing abortion as morally abhorrent and passing judgement on women who have abortions. When I look at the world I see a lot of things going on that I can't agree with, but I try my best not to speculate about the character and intentions of the people whom I see making these bad choices. They may be facing pressures and pain that I can't even imagine. It doesn't make those choices right, but it makes it impossible for me to pass harsh judgement.

I believe that life begins at conception, and struggle to understand the notion of foetal viability. A foetus receives greater protection as soon as it reaches the point where it could survive with minimal aid outside its mother's womb, which presents the following question: is the personhood of the unborn child determined by the efficacy of what we could do to support it if it were to be born at that moment (e.g. provide incubators, respirators, etc.), or is it something inherent? I find it very troubling that personhood is determined by these external things. This is why I struggle to accept the view that it is possible to disagree with abortion on a personal level, but to acknowledge that it might be the right choice for others. The first approach reduces personhood to a matter of medical expertise; the second approach reduces it to a matter of opinion. "I see unborn children as people in their own right, but you don't, so of course you're free to make your own choice." If you believe that an unborn child is truly a person, is it possible for you not to speak out for the rights of the unborn? After all, they are among the most vulnerable people in society - they're voiceless and they're treated as disposable.

It's also important not to reduce this to a question of religion. As a Catholic, I believe that each and every one of us was willed into existence by Love Himself and that each of us has a special purpose that only we can answer. ("My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes beheld my unformed substance. In your book were written all the days that were formed for me, before one of them came to be." Psalm 139) But it is quite possible for atheists and agnostics to adopt a consistent pro-life position. This essay sets out some interesting points regarding that:

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Pa ... heist.html

It's also important to consider abortion within the context of the feminist movement. Nowadays, abortion is presented as a fundamental right that should be available to all women. In the words of Gloria Steinem: "If I can't control my body from the skin in, I will never be able to control my life from the skin out." Interestingly, the early feminists did not see it in quite the same way. Looking at the situation now, I see the quest for reproductive rights as perpetuating some gross inequalities - the idea that an unplanned pregnancy is always a woman's problem, the notion that success and motherhood are incompatible, and the myth that a woman who chooses to keep her baby when her situation is difficult has quite deliberately brought her problems on herself. In reality these problems are the fault of society at large. Economically and socially disadvantaged women (particularly single mothers) who choose not to abort are painted as benefit scroungers, even though in some cases they barely receive enough to live on. Childcare is still not recognised for the hard work that it is, which means that they are also stereotyped as lazy. Meanwhile, successful professional women are often forced to choose between giving birth to a child and advancing in their career. I see abortion as contributing to a culture of inequality rather than advancing it, as a woman who keeps her baby and yet expects to hold down a good job with a reasonable chance at promotion is told that she shouldn't expect to have it both ways - something that a man would never have to hear. The same is true of girls and women who become pregnant whilst at school or university. They are expected to make a choice between carrying the pregnancy to term and receiving a good education, with the assumption being that it is their fault if they have the baby and then can't manage college. "After all, you chose it!" Few people are willing to identify a lack of support as the real issue here. Instead, the woman becomes an object of criticism.

Feminists for Life has more information on this: http://www.feministsforlife.org/
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Re: Abortion

Postby druchi » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:28 pm

Its a personal choice. Luckily I wont ever be in that situation so Im thankful for that.
I dont see it as such a huge issue but most of it boils down too

Its the persons choice
No choice
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Re: Abortion

Postby Xenavire » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:59 pm

I believe its the chioce of the mother.

First off, there are many circumstances where the mother might not want the child...
Some more extreme ones might include a prenancy from rape...


And its not like humans dont toy with lives all the time anyway... So many murders happen every year, and those people could have had lot live for... Some newborns dont live regardless of the amount of care they are given, and they can feel pain... A lot of birth defects can be obvious even in the womb, so sometimes its a kindness to skip the suffering.

I could also point out the euthanasia of animals. Animals feel pain, have emotions, think and breathe, and can often live quite a long time... Sometimes its a kindness to put them down (illness etc) but a lot of strays who are quite healthy and just dont get homed soon enough ge put down... Some of which have been pets who got lost.

To say abortion is wrong when it is sometimes benificial to all involved, is hypocracy. Some people never wanted o be pregnant in the first place, or the child has obvious defects that show its life might not only be in danger, but if it survives could be quite damaging to the quality of life. And again, we say its murder, but if our pet cats and dogs had vioces, might they not also cry "murder" for what we do to them?

I think it should be legalized everywhere, and be completely confidential. Then its up to individuals and them alone, to decide if its right or wrong.
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Re: Abortion

Postby chocolatefudgecake » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:38 pm

parnassus wrote:The first approach reduces personhood to a matter of medical expertise; the second approach reduces it to a matter of opinion. "I see unborn children as people in their own right, but you don't, so of course you're free to make your own choice." If you believe that an unborn child is truly a person, is it possible for you not to speak out for the rights of the unborn? After all, they are among the most vulnerable people in society - they're voiceless and they're treated as disposable.


If it was someone i knew, i probably would try to convince them, because i hate the idea, but at the end of the day, it's their life, and if they don't want the baby, there's nothing i could do to stop them, especially if having them ruins their life. So I would speak out, but i don't think it's right to force them to have the baby. does that make sense?

Pity there isn't a way to move them from someone who doesn't want a child to someone who does, so the person who doesn't want a child doesn't have to go through pregnancy. but that's not possible, is it?

Xenavire wrote:but a lot of strays who are quite healthy and just dont get homed soon enough ge put down... Some of which have been pets who got lost.


I don't agree with this either - Why put down an animal that's healthy? Someone may take them in the end, but they won't be able too if the animal is dead.

Xenavire wrote:I could also point out the euthanasia of animals. Animals feel pain, have emotions, think and breathe, and can often live quite a long time... Sometimes its a kindness to put them down (illness etc)

I'm not sure if i agree with this or not - how do you know what the animal wants?
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