MPs And Expenses

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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby Thirteen-thirty-seven » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:38 am

Alice wrote:Do you reckon if I became an MP, I could get a flamethrower on expenses claiming their where too many zombies in my constituancy? I mean, so long as that was the location of my second home it would probably count as maintainance (zombies have a tendenecy to trash the place). :lol:


I think that's an excellent idea.
It makes more sense than this, anyway:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009 ... servatives
Tory MP Sir Peter Viggers said today he felt "ashamed and humiliated" over his expenses claim for an island to house the ducks in his pond.

He described his decision to include the feature in his taxpayer-funded second home claims as a "ridiculous and grave error of judgment".

The ducks had never liked the ­feature and it was no longer being used, he added.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby Dan » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:21 am

Druchi you're talking about anarchism. Governments are important but need to be regulated.

Also, whilst the expenses thing is bad I find it incredible that people vote for BNP and Conservative to "get back" at Labour. Conservatives were actually worse than Labour with expenses which is why it's crazy.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby druchi » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:51 am

Is that Anarchisim? :S

I thought that was just shouting loud and pretending to be a 'rebel'

Also I like the idea fo the Zombie expenses that would be a good laugh xD

To chocolate fudgecake.

Its pretty daunting whne you think about it isnt it! Very exciting thing really I do think rules are needed to an extent but not like for now Is it Libertarianisim *sp?* that beleives that less govorment is better sort of thing? I beleive in Spain something like this happend shortly before the Spanish Civil war although I think Dan was right that this was Anarchisim. But Anarchisim is not a total breakdown of govorment which I can agree with.

I think a good example I can think of is the EZLN who are in Mexico and I heard about them on the History channel and I ended up doing alot of research on them and i started to beleive in what they where doing. They are also known as Zappatisita's and they broke out in an uprising against the Mexican govorment. Very intresting case but sparing the history it is one of the few armed struggles I will agree with. Heres one of the links I used to write my report on them for school.

http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/mexico.html
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby Fortnox » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:51 pm

Too bad this debate is distracting from the fact that Obama spent £45K on a date.
Face it they've been frowning us forever, it's just in the open for once. You've got to remember we still live in a Monarchy- we never overthrew the Monarchy, we never had a change of system, it's just that power shifted from the Monarch to Parliament. We haven't had a significant parliamentary reform act in over 100 years. We're still using the First Past The Post system.. If you know what that is, you most likely know how incredibly broken it is.

Government doesn't work.. Unless all people are ignorant, blissful and uncaring. Anarchy doesn't work unless all people are independent, intelligent and well-informed.
Neither of those situations are going to happen. Organising civilization on this scale is nigh impossible. If only Earth had been an archipelago planet with less than a thousand population per island, we could easily organise ourselves in those sizes- but never in the numbers we see today. City States couldn't work because it would only require one greedy, stupid general/dictator/etc to plough through the city states and create an Empire for his kids and the entire system falls apart.

If we are to judge our government from 1 to 10, you're never going to get above 8- It can't be done. But I'd also say we, England, are incredibly low on that scale and we could at least do better. But it's sort-of impossible because the people aren't active enough to want to change the system and the system is too biased to ever change itself..

druchi wrote:Is that Anarchisim? :S

I thought that was just shouting loud and pretending to be a 'rebel'l

This misconception annoys me almost as much as the misconceptions about Heavy Metal culture. Anarchy is about love and trust for all people. It's an optimistic view of Human nature that's probably wrong, and could really only work in small groups of like-minded individuals.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby druchi » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:44 am

I just think Ghandi was right. "The country that is govrend best is govrned least."
No one ever changed the world by being realistic.

And to be fair to Obama If I had 45k to spend on a date I bloody well would there is no more important a thing than love.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby Fortnox » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:33 pm

druchi wrote:I just think Ghandi was right. "The country that is govrend best is govrned least."


Very wise. The smaller the government is, the more rights and freedoms you have. The bigger it is, the bigger it will grow, the less privileges you may have.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby HairyLemon » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:15 pm

Why do you think that first past the post is incredibly broken. It creates strong governments without any need for coalitions and provides a link between people and their local MP.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby druchi » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:17 pm

You sound like you just learned that in a class.

I dont ccare for politics anymore gave up just keep everything how it is doesnt matter cant change it anyway.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby parnassus » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:02 am

druchi wrote:You sound like you just learned that in a class.

I dont ccare for politics anymore gave up just keep everything how it is doesnt matter cant change it anyway.


You quoted Gandhi in your other post, Druchi. He and his supporters managed to bring about a lot of very significant changes, Indian independence being one of them. When I look at Westminster today I don't really see anybody there who truly represents me, and I see our whole system as chaotic and impotent, but the events of history do show that politics matter and that it is possible for individuals to bring about changes for the better. I am interested in a wide range of political issues - prison reform, Palestinian freedom, immigration and asylum, anti-war movements, environmentalism, ethical trading - and while I get very frustrated by politicians' response to them, I haven't lost my interest in the issues themselves.
"This above all, to thine own self be true." - Polonius, Hamlet.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby Dan » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:57 am

FPTP is not my favourite voting system but it's better than PR. I'd prefer we use AV (alternate voting) because that allows you to priotise your desired candidates with 4 levels. This means people are far more likely to vote Liberal Democrats and they could get in if this was the case. People only tend to vote Labour or Conservative because of the current (IMO: broken) system. PR allowed BNP to get two seats in the EU parliament. That's almost 3% of the UKs EU budget going to blatant fascists. If we had have used FPTP then they would have gained no seats and Liberal Democrats would have done considerably better.

MP expenses are bad and it proves that our MPs are not fit for the job. In my opinion we need a massive reform of parliament to inspire confidence in the political system again and to bring in some new younger and more lively MPs who really believe that change is attainable and that our country can be better.

If I had my way EVERY MP who claimed unfair expenses (excluding £5 for charity, that's just nitpicking) would be thrown out with no ludicrous pension schemes like they all get currently. Gordon Brown would stay in government and a new cabinet would be selected. I love that Alan Sugar and Tim Berners-Lee have been admitted into politics I believe they'll bring a lot to it and maybe Gordon Brown could continue on this route and maybe come somewhere near my idea of what I'd like to happen.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby druchi » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:38 am

The party system sold us out.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby Dan » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:20 pm

druchi wrote:The party system sold us out.


Apathy never helped anyone. If you feel strongly about politics then you should try to make a difference. Believe it or not MPs do read letters they get sent and they're often pleased when people under 21 are interested in politics at all.
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Re: MPs And Expenses

Postby Fortnox » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:13 pm

HairyLemon wrote:Why do you think that first past the post is incredibly broken. It creates strong governments without any need for coalitions and provides a link between people and their local MP.


We've had the FPTP system for over 100 years. This system allows someone with less votes to get into power because it's better to have a smaller wider geographical spread of votes than it is to have a large amount of votes centralised. The only reason corrupt politicians are able to stay in power is because this system has existed for so long that it is extremely easy to exploit. And hell this isn't even the worst part of the government, our priorities should be to remove the House of Lords and the Monarch.
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