Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

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Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Brian » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:54 pm

I am sick and tired of animal loving muppets getting onto media outlets and giving out about a supermarket selling some type of meat [last week it was raindeer] and then having the cheak to turn around and saying we should be vegetarians.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Remus » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:51 am

We did that exact debate in Animal Welfare and it was hard because the majority of us are meat eaters with only 2 or 3 vegetarians so some people had to pretend to be veggie. The actual debate was really stupid though because it just kept going back and forth between the sides until you basically lost what they were going on about. I think as long as you eat meat moderately (not in excess) and you eat quite simple meat such as chicken, turkey etc, nothing fancy like reindeer, kangaroo etc, I don't have a problem with it.

I have to give full credit to the activists though, I understand why they do what they do. After you see a pig chained up and having it's throat slit, it's no surprise. I think I would of turned if I had like veggies.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Cynamon » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:45 pm

I have no problem with animals being killed for food. I don't like the fact that so much is wasted because people don't buy the same amount of meat as we kill.

I also think the animals should be treated humanly beforehand. Which many are not.

I was vegetarian for 8 years, it had nothing to do with animal rights or anything, I just didn't like the taste of meat and didn't want to eat it. I still don't like a lot of meat and have a mostly vegetarian diet just eating the odd bits of meat I do like.

Not all vegetarians/vegans are animal rights activists. There are lots that choose not to eat meat for other reasons, some just feel it's a healthier way of eating.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Macha » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:46 pm

I eat meat myself, and have no problem with people eating meat.

Except with endangered species. Reindeer aren't endangered, but I'm sure some of the other species people have had problems with supermarkets selling are/were endangered.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Page » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:06 am

I go fishing quite often (mostly for bluegill and largemouths) and I always kill and eat my catch. I also eat the other types of meat that most people do (beef, chicken, pork, etc.)

Lots of people go deer hunting in Alabama and I'm hoping I can do it one of these days. Hunting is essential because if people did not shoot the deer they would multiply out of control each year and there would not be enough food for all of them in winter. (not to mention that the extra population would be an increased road hazard) Everyone I know who hunts does so for food; shooting a deer purely for sport and then leaving it to rot is very much looked down upon around here. Most of the extra meat from hunts is given to needy families so it helps everyone. You can also hunt wild geese and wild turkeys when in season.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Remus » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:30 pm

Fair enough if you need to hunt for food, I don't have a problem with that unless it excessive hunting but don't use population as an excuse. It's a natural order and it's doesn't need to be disturbed. The population increases to its maximum output and once it increases over the limit, the prey or food source depletes quickly, the population starves and decreases and then the prey or food source increases once again and starts the cycle over again.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Page » Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:13 am

The natural balance has been broken for a long time.

In the case of deer, there are very few natural predators than there would be otherwise; most of the big indigenous carnivores (bear, wolves, and mountain lions) have either been eliminated entirely or massively reduced in number in all but the most remote areas for well over a century. Since there is little natural predation compared to what there would be otherwise, there is nothing to stop deer from overpopulating. They tend to become pests; they graze from peoples gardens and hitting a deer with your car can wreck your car and even kill you. Humans have to serve as the apex predators to keep things in check.

We also get large numbers of Canadian Geese migrating down here in the winter... most of them leave by spring, but quite a few stay year round and they multiply. It is not unusual to see flocks of 40 birds or more around any body of water at any time of the year. They are dirty, noisy, and aggressive and I think the hunting season should be kept open indefinitely so we can eliminate many more of them than we already do. (there are no natural predators in this area since the geese are an invasive species) These birds are the size of large turkeys and are supposed to be delicious if properly prepared.

Also, too many people practice catch and release while fishing. In the case of Largemouth Bass, many populations are stunted because there are too many bass and not enough food for all of them to mature to full size. Most lakes are restocked each year anyway.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Cynamon » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:49 am

I love Canada geese. Not on topic at all, sorry. :oops:
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Remus » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:37 pm

It is best for nature to deal with overpopulation itself. Eventually the population won't be able to sustain itselt, it will hit a critical point and then the population decreases until it gets to a level that can be sustained again. Overpopulation is great because it ensures the survival of the species. However when people start to meddle into that process, that when the species is at risk. This is because of one main reason: people can get it wrong. You could hunt that species to very low population and then stop. But what happens if next breeding season, they have a really crappy season with low food supply or abnormal weather conditions and then if the birth rate decreases, the population decreases more and then the species is in real danger. So at the end of the day, who cares if they pests if it enable their survival? Personally I would love it if I found a deer in my garden.

Humans don't keep things in check though, we do more damage than good. This world was fine without us but then we came along all high and mighty and next thing you know all sorts of species are being wiped out because of our actions. Take the grey and red squirrels for example, the red squirrels were native to the UK and had quite a large distribution over the country. That was until we introduce the grey squirrel to the island and they basically just invaded and took over. Now the grey population is massive and the red squirrel is very low in numbers over here and it's our fault. If we hadn't of messed, that species would have never made it over here.

Are you saying you would kill an animal just because in your personal opinion you find them dirty, noisy and aggressive? If so, that is completely barbaric! I mean there is species I don't like but I wouldn't get a shotgun and hunt them down. I've worked with canadian geese. Sure, some of them can be a bit aggressive at times but most of them were quite friendly. You can't stereotype entire species because of a few individuals.

Wow, way off topic, get me on a topic I like and I write. Basically for me when it's comes to hunting, the only viable reason should be for food. Any other reason than that and it's just not on. Same here, Julia. I like them too, they quite nice creatures. I admire how their fly for thousand miles just to immigrate.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Cynamon » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:37 pm

I'm not good at long detailed posts, so I'll just say I agree with Remus.

Oh, have you seen Fly Away Home, Remus?
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Remus » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:19 pm

Yes, I've seen it, really warm-hearted, feel good movie. We watched in Animal Behaviour a few weeks ago when were doing about imprinting, Emma wanted us to understand it from the movie but to be honest, I got more human behaviour out of it! :P Lovely movie though, I like the scene where the geese are little and are following her around.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Cynamon » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:08 pm

Hehe me too, it's so cute.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Page » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:02 pm

Remus wrote:It is best for nature to deal with overpopulation itself. Eventually the population won't be able to sustain itselt, it will hit a critical point and then the population decreases until it gets to a level that can be sustained again. Overpopulation is great because it ensures the survival of the species. However when people start to meddle into that process, that when the species is at risk. This is because of one main reason: people can get it wrong. You could hunt that species to very low population and then stop. But what happens if next breeding season, they have a really crappy season with low food supply or abnormal weather conditions and then if the birth rate decreases, the population decreases more and then the species is in real danger. So at the end of the day, who cares if they pests if it enable their survival? Personally I would love it if I found a deer in my garden.

Humans don't keep things in check though, we do more damage than good. This world was fine without us but then we came along all high and mighty and next thing you know all sorts of species are being wiped out because of our actions. Take the grey and red squirrels for example, the red squirrels were native to the UK and had quite a large distribution over the country. That was until we introduce the grey squirrel to the island and they basically just invaded and took over. Now the grey population is massive and the red squirrel is very low in numbers over here and it's our fault. If we hadn't of messed, that species would have never made it over here.


Far more species have gone extinct without human interaction. (dinosaurs, Permian extinction, etc.)

Most of Alabama is virgin woodland that has never been developed. Except for the removal of the dangerous predators I previously mentioned, everything is very natural. Both the white-tail deer and the canadian geese that we have here in Alabama are officially least-concern as far as species population goes. There are strict limits on the number of animals you may take on each trip, so critically reducing the population through hunting alone is very unlikely. (disease is far more likely to do that) In the event that a species would become scarce, a moratorium on hunting that species would be imposed for a time and the penalties for breaking that are quite severe.

Are you saying you would kill an animal just because in your personal opinion you find them dirty, noisy and aggressive? If so, that is completely barbaric! I mean there is species I don't like but I wouldn't get a shotgun and hunt them down.


I never said anything about killing for sport. However, The geese are a problem and it is necessary to control their numbers through artificial means. In addition to the reasons I have mentioned, they have displaced much of the native waterfowl in this area. Right now Canada geese populations are culled regularly by the state of Alabama (they are rounded up, herded into cages, and then gassed to death) and eggs are destroyed. It seems more sporting to give the birds a fair chance by hunting them instead. If more people got involved, they could save money on meat in times where unemployment is high and money is scarce. If anything, hunting is more ethical than farm raising since the animal has a chance to escape.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Remus » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:47 pm

Yes but those species extinction was natural caused by natural disasters, disease etc.

Whether there on the edge of extinction or thriving as a species, it does not give you right to hunt them down. Fair enough if you do it for food and you trying to feed your family in reason but if you are killing animals just so you can lower their numbers is ridiculous. Moratoriums are useless, they don't do nothing. So many people get away with illegal hunting and even if they do get caught, they don't care. They get a slap on the wrists and that's it. They just go back and do it again. When it comes to animals and law, it's basically just some pathetic joke because they simply don't work and there are not enforced properly. Anyway, imagine you do hunt and then that species population suddenly get scarce and then at that exact point one of them catches some disease, spread it to the other and then basically decease one by one until the that species is wiped out. The more of them there is the more chance of survival from things like disease however lower the population and the risk increases.

Explain to me exactly how these geese are a problem. Now I can understand if you have a small population of man eating tigers around (not that I'm saying tigers eat humans, that's a rare occurrence :P, just stating a point) then yeah sure you would need to do something but they just geese, what are they going to do, they are pretty harmless. Sure they can attack and bite but they only do that if they feel themselves or their goslings are threatened. As for the whole displacing the native waterfowl, Canadian Geese are an invasive species and unlikely the grey squirrel I mention earlier who we brought over, the geese can fly which mean they can invade pretty much anyway and it's their right to. It's upto the native waterfowl and other species in that area to deal with that.

Why destroy the eggs when you could incubate them or send off to a wildlife centre where they could be cared for and then moved when they grow up. Honestly, I can't think of one reason why it would be sporting to hunt a species just because they are successful. If people are unemployed and poor, simple. Don't eat meat, there is plenty of cheaper foods out there besides eating meat all the time isn't exactly healthy.
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Re: Vegitarianism And The Slaughter Of Animals For Human Use

Postby Brian » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:03 am

Remus wrote:Whether there on the edge of extinction or thriving as a species, it does not give you right to hunt them down. Fair enough if you do it for food and you trying to feed your family in reason but if you are killing animals just so you can lower their numbers is ridiculous. Moratoriums are useless, they don't do nothing. So many people get away with illegal hunting and even if they do get caught, they don't care. They get a slap on the wrists and that's it. They just go back and do it again. When it comes to animals and law, it's basically just some pathetic joke because they simply don't work and there are not enforced properly. Anyway, imagine you do hunt and then that species population suddenly get scarce and then at that exact point one of them catches some disease, spread it to the other and then basically decease one by one until the that species is wiped out. The more of them there is the more chance of survival from things like disease however lower the population and the risk increases.


I am definitely convinced now that there is a cultural barrier recently on DT because we have regular posters from America, Australia, Ireland , the UK and France on here.

Hunting is extremely popular in America, I'd say about 75% of Americans have gone hunting once in their life time. It is absolutely massive over their you walk into walmart and you can pick up 200 bullets, with your groceries or even buy a gun. That is in the big supermarket in the United States.

Remus wrote:Are you saying you would kill an animal just because in your personal opinion you find them dirty, noisy and aggressive? If so, that is completely barbaric! I mean there is species I don't like but I wouldn't get a shotgun and hunt them down.


Get over this barbaric nonsense shooting some animal and killing is barbaric when there specie is growing out of control. It called pest control not barbaric cruelty.

Humans and animals have been killing or kicking the s**t out each other for sport for thousands of years. Is this barbaric two people stepping foot into a fully enclosed area wearing weights on their hands, barely any clothes and trying to hit each other's head as hard as possible until someone gets injured, is that barbaric?
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