Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

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Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Dan » Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:34 am

Hey everyone, I was wondering if people here have tried any psychoactive substances and if they could give accounts of how it affected them. I'm intrigued to know if Dyspraxics are more/less sensitive to certain common drug effects.

When I found out about legal highs I used a few and I'm well aware that these are not researched. I found that Butylone gave me a newfound confidence and an almost profound intervention into my life. Sadly this effect withered as the drugs did. I've NEVER felt confident like that before, it was liberating. I have also tried Mephedrone and Methylone a fair few times and they have similar main effects but they don't have that confidence boost that Butylone does. I honestly felt like I believe "normal" people feel (confidence wise) and I took it 3 days in a row until I realised it was not agreeing with my body. I felt pretty bad but recovered swiftly thank goodness.

I understand people may be uncomfortable about discussing this stuff here but it's as pertinent as any other question and I'd like some advice on medication that I could get prescribed to give me a similar anti-anxiety feeling as Butylone as I'm falling out of touch a bit recently.

Thank you. I hope some of you post experiences.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby babooshka2002 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:21 pm

I'm not sure that "normal" people are are more likely to feel super-confident than we are, to be honest and I think anxiety is unfortunately something anyone can suffer from.

If you have issues with anxiety, you could go see a GP and see what he or she says. They may be able to tell you about any local places that could offer counselling, or you can get a certain amount of counselling on the NHS. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy could possibly help you out with learning to think in different ways and helping you to tackle the things which set your anxiety off. The GP may also consider prescribing you an anti-depressant or something, but these are very much a double-edged sword as they can hurt as well as help.

Some over-the-counter anti-depressants might do something for you - a friend of mine manages his depression and anxiety with St Johns Wort and 5-HTP. But then, I have no idea if you are depressed or not, maybe you're not.

Thing about generating confidence with Butylone or something else, is that it's obviously produced by that drug, so any drug you took to produce the desired confidence, you'd presumably need to keep taking. Obviously this can harm the body, as you found out, but it can harm the body without you knowing anything about it as well (so you wouldn't know to stop), and things that mess with your neurotransmitters, like Methylone, can cause more problems - you've only got a certain amount of them and I'm sure you know that MDMA can cause pretty horrific depressions when you come down and Methylone is related to MDMA (though not as strong).

Just had a thought - you could go and speak to a pharmacist. Pharmacists specialise in medication and I've found one near to me (in a Boots store) who often knows things my GPs don't, just because it's his area of expertise.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Piers1 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:21 am

Mate, you might be interested in a man named Dr. Timothy Francis Leary (October 22, 1920 – May 31, 1996) was an American writer, psychologist, futurist, and advocate of psychedelic drug research. An icon of 1960s counterculture, Leary is most famous as a proponent of the therapeutic, spiritual and emotional benefits of LSD. He coined and popularized the catch phrase "Turn on, tune in, drop out." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_leary
You should also listen to the Beatles. Most of their songs make reference to psychodelic drugs. peace out xlxo
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby kayla+ » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:59 am

Hi, I've just been prescribed anti depressants but am worried about them making my dyspraxia worse or other things like sucicide or making exams and studying harder. My mother doesn't want me to take them but the doctor thinks they'd help. i feel low and tired but not depressed.
Any advice?
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Danni » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:40 pm

What antidepressants are they? Some (like fluoxetine) are pretty safe to take, and shouldn't make you feel suicidal or make exams harder (indeed, if they work then they'll make it easier). Also, the way they work shouldn't make your dyspraxia worse.

There are others though that can cause problems (and make you more clumsy, like the ones I'm on) but without knowing what they are it would be hard to say.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Dan » Thu Mar 25, 2010 8:53 pm

There are a HUGE array of SSRIs. You may not even be on an SSRI, it could be an SNRI or an SDRI and they're all different. You're unlikely to feel suicidal although it is possible. Many argue that SSRIs remove your mood rather than make it better. IE sad things and happy things just make you feel neutral. People can find this potentiates their depression.

I recommend Effexor personally, especially if you suffer from anxiety, as this is supposed to be rather effective for both. Objectively I say you should not use an SSRI unless you feel that things will never improve. Not only is the withdrawal from an SSRI agonizing if done incorrectly, they're also not fixing the cause of depression, just fixing a symptom (the majority of the time).

You'll be amazed how much Vitamin B12 injections have been stipulated to improve depression, focus and well-being in some subjects. I'm not sure how easy it is to get this from the doc though. (pill form does not work really, too little B12 is absorbed).

Back to my discussions. I understand that Anxiety is something everybody faces, but that inherent inhibition I've had to socialize throughout my life just evaporated for 12 hours. It made me feel euphoric indirectly and I think it's one of the things that sets me apart from others. I've not had Butylone in a while as the comedown was godawful, I also realise it's not good for me. It won't be legal for long anyway as the government are blanket banning Mephedrone analogues and Butylone is one of those.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby parnassus » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:41 am

Dan, you are entitled to your own views on medication, which you can share quite freely in the debate threads. But it's important to draw a line between giving your personal views ("I think...") and handing out prescriptive advice ("I recommend...") to someone who has been given a specific medication by her doctor. No one here is a doctor or a pharmacist, and we aren't qualified to give Kayla that sort of advice. We may just end up worrying her more, and all without cause.
"This above all, to thine own self be true." - Polonius, Hamlet.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Dan » Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:49 am

Vicky, I assure you, I've done a HUGE amount of research in pharmaceuticals and I feel very confident giving advice on them. I've got a huge amount of anecdotal knowledge and research to backup the majority of my arguments and I've experienced depression too. I'd say I'm experiencing it now but am not sure if an SSRI would help or hinder.

I understand I'm not a qualified doctor but my mum's qualified doctor prescribed her a deadly combination of drugs (Zolpitriptan and Tramadol). This AMAZED me and this combination could KILL you (I of course warned her straight away, SSRI + SRI can cause potentially fatal serotonin syndrome). It amazes me the ignorance of some doctors. My friend's girlfriend's mum was prescribed Valium, DHC and Zolpicone. These are ALL CNS depressants and could very well be fatal.

I've lost a HUGE amount of faith in GP's ability to prescribe properly and I heavily encourage research online. SSRIs are linked to neurotoxicity quite strongly, much through the same mechanism as MDMA although less extreme and patients are not educated on this.

The bottom line is, depression is not a "disease" as such, it's an incredibly personal condition that one has to find the best mechanism to cure it. I believe counselling works for some, drugs work for others, and just family support can be enough in some cases.

Once again. Don't take my advice as gospel but I'm quite experienced in the area and have time to offer advice when doctors do not.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Piers1 » Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:44 pm

kayla+ wrote:Hi, I've just been prescribed anti depressants but am worried about them making my dyspraxia worse or other things like sucicide or making exams and studying harder. My mother doesn't want me to take them but the doctor thinks they'd help. i feel low and tired but not depressed.
Any advice?
Kayla+


Why Antidepressants Are No Better Than Placebos - Newsweek.com
http://www.newsweek.com/id/232781
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Thirteen-thirty-seven » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:15 am

Newsweek is not a medical journal.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Alice » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:14 pm

I for one have more faith in a doctor who has spent several years at medical school learning how to treat me then any number of sensationalist uninformed journalists, credible looking but ultimately uninformed websites, or conclusions drawn from anicdotal evidence by ignoring that the situations involved were highly complex in terms of unmentioned variables.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Dan » Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:36 pm

Remember this topic is about psychoactive drug use. I'm keen to hear of any other dyspraxic experiences of drugs. Be this Marijuana, MDMA, Cocaine, Codeine, etc.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby babooshka2002 » Fri Apr 02, 2010 5:52 pm

Dan wrote:Remember this topic is about psychoactive drug use. I'm keen to hear of any other dyspraxic experiences of drugs. Be this Marijuana, MDMA, Cocaine, Codeine, etc.


I take codeine on a regular basis, but not for psychoactive use, it's for pain relief. I've had up to 120mg of it in a night before - 60mg when I go to bed and if I wake in pain I have another dose. It's with paracetamol, so I can't take more than that. I have had codeine prescribed by itself before (30mg tablets) and I found that it was far too tempting to take more than I should, because obviously when tolerance develops, the pain relief is less and it's so tempting to try more (what I actually have to do when tolerance develops is stop taking it for a number of weeks, which is fairly unpleasant because I have to try and compensate as far as possible by taking ibuprofen, which gives me stomach ulcers, woo yay). When it was just codeine, I took more than 10 in a night easily, once or twice. Serious waste though, because after about four at a time I didn't get any additional pain relief or sleepy drowsy chilled side-effects - what I did get was severe and uncontrollable itching, which led to me scratching a large amount of the skin on my shoulders off, since I had recently given up a lifetime of biting my nails and wasn't used to having miniature weapons on the ends of all my fingers... :P

Oh yeh, another enjoyable (sarcasm) side effect of codeine is the epic and extreme constipation (if I wasn't on laxatives as well, I would not be going to the toilet at all - I have been bunged up for a month before due to difficulty in remembering to take the laxative and ended up in hospital twice with severe bowel cramps due to this - it was so agonising that they insisted on checking that I wasn't pregnant and having contractions). I wouldn't really recommend it unless you have to take it, even though the other side-effects can be pleasant.
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Piers1 » Sat Apr 03, 2010 6:11 am

The Secret War Over Ecstasy

A documentary maker reveals the startling history of Ecstasy. In the 1960s some psychotherapists were treating alcoholism and neurosis with LSD — and in 1957 a Catholic church monsignor in Vancouver even wrote a prayer for LSD trips. (”We humbly ask our Heavenly Mother the Virgin, help of all who call upon her to know and understand the true qualities of these psychedelics…”) But after LSD was made illegal, psychiatrists struggled to keep MDMA (Ecstasy) from suffering the same fate for the next two decades…

MDMA was promoted in the 1970s by a senior research scientist at Dow Chemicals, but in 1985 it was still declared a Schedule One drug — illegal with no medical use — though it’s been shown to dramatically enhance psychotherapy, especially
for post-traumatic stress disorder. It’s even considered safe — one professor wrote in the Journal of Psychopharmacology that “There is not much difference between the dangers of horse-riding and the dangers of ecstasy.”

And according to the United Nations, the world already consumes 125 tons of Ecstasy each year…


http://hplusmagazine.com/articles/enhan ... ma-therapy
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Re: Psychoactive drug use and Dyspraxics

Postby Dan » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:41 pm

babooshka2002 wrote:
Dan wrote:Remember this topic is about psychoactive drug use. I'm keen to hear of any other dyspraxic experiences of drugs. Be this Marijuana, MDMA, Cocaine, Codeine, etc.


I take codeine on a regular basis, but not for psychoactive use, it's for pain relief. I've had up to 120mg of it in a night before - 60mg when I go to bed and if I wake in pain I have another dose. It's with paracetamol, so I can't take more than that. I have had codeine prescribed by itself before (30mg tablets) and I found that it was far too tempting to take more than I should, because obviously when tolerance develops, the pain relief is less and it's so tempting to try more (what I actually have to do when tolerance develops is stop taking it for a number of weeks, which is fairly unpleasant because I have to try and compensate as far as possible by taking ibuprofen, which gives me stomach ulcers, woo yay). When it was just codeine, I took more than 10 in a night easily, once or twice. Serious waste though, because after about four at a time I didn't get any additional pain relief or sleepy drowsy chilled side-effects - what I did get was severe and uncontrollable itching, which led to me scratching a large amount of the skin on my shoulders off, since I had recently given up a lifetime of biting my nails and wasn't used to having miniature weapons on the ends of all my fingers... :P

Oh yeh, another enjoyable (sarcasm) side effect of codeine is the epic and extreme constipation (if I wasn't on laxatives as well, I would not be going to the toilet at all - I have been bunged up for a month before due to difficulty in remembering to take the laxative and ended up in hospital twice with severe bowel cramps due to this - it was so agonising that they insisted on checking that I wasn't pregnant and having contractions). I wouldn't really recommend it unless you have to take it, even though the other side-effects can be pleasant.


Haha. I've used Codeine recreationally. You can't have more than 400mg of Codeine at a time due to the fact there's a dosage threshold which means your body cannot metabolize that much so it gets wasted. I've taken 120mg and it definitely gets me "buzzed". I normally do it if I have a headache and I fancy a bit of fun. It's interesting but it loses its magic after the first few times. It's a little psychadelic, once when I took far too much Dihydrocodeine, I had bizarre dreams that were sorta semi-sleep and kinda interesting but I do not understand how people find this effect addictive, I guess it's for the same reason people find alcohol's effects addictive which baffles me. Not to say I don't find some effects addictive, I find Xanax's effects to be nice, because it rids me of anxiety, but I know their withdrawal is the worst in the world so I never use them more than once in a 3-day period.

Well, it's interesting to know you've used them anyway. By the way, you can get rid of the paracetamol from normal codeines using a technique called Cold Water Extraction, people buy 30 8/500 pills, CWE them then drink the water. Paracetamol is denser than Codeine at low temp so it sinks to the bottom and then the drink is almost 100% Codeine, it's quite interesting but not recommended.

I've used quite a lot of things and cumulatively they've probably made me a more well-rounded person, they've shown me my share of addiction, hedonism, sadness and regrettably, a little psychosis. I probably wouldn't change a thing about my use but I understand on a dyspraxic forum people may look down on me for this. This makes me feel sad but I've always had "obsessions" in my life, be this titanic, astronomy, programming. Right now it's psychoactive drug use and I do it for the academic side as much as for the hedonistic side.

But yeah, 120mg of Codeine is a dose where I'd feel quite good, must have been nice being prescribed 'em. ;)

Regarding MDMA and LSD. These are both very safe drugs. LSD is perhaps physically impeccable as regards to long-term effects. LSD is also shown to be incredibly effective as a cluster headache cure, and for the record, no medication has competed, it's speculated it is due to 5HT2C agonism that this effect occurs, but nobody knows for sure. MDMA is great for opening up to people but it's still a highly abusable drug. It should NOT be class A, I believe it should be class C, and marijuana should be legal. I also believe Methamphetamine should be class A, not class B. The government have very skewed drug policies. Makes me angry.
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