are we a free nation anymore?

Discuss the latest news in the media and voice your own opinions about the news.

Postby intowiz » Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:02 pm

i personelly think the police are no longer here to protect us but to just obey and do as there told there little wind up toys that cant think for themselves. the police are there to inforce ludicrous laws upon us all without questioning why those laws are there and how they protect the public. they are the goverments inforcers, this makes them a branch of the goverment.
"Dance on, lads, you're young; I was once."
Old manx sailor, Moby dick
User avatar
intowiz
The Cat's Pajamas !!
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:43 am

far from that

Postby k9ruby » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:31 pm

i personelly think the police are no longer here to protect us but to just obey and do as there told there little wind up toys that cant think for themselves. the police are there to inforce ludicrous laws upon us all without questioning why those laws are there and how they protect the public. they are the goverments inforcers, this makes them a branch of the goverment.


They are far from that. Yes, the goverment may subject them to rules, the state may fund them, but that does not make them a sector of the goverment-far from it. .

My dad is constantly complaining how the goverment imposes a ludicrous amount of paperwork on them, (and I can certainly tell you he can think for himself!), and thinks that PCSOs are cardboard cutouts, that the goverment are using to create a inpersonation of a real police force- money wasted on what could be people to do their paperwork for them and allow them to get on with their job.

Its like us. We are not a sector of the goverment, but they fund things for us- like police and the health service.
User avatar
k9ruby
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: far from that

Postby Henri » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:46 pm

k9ruby wrote:
i personelly think the police are no longer here to protect us but to just obey and do as there told there little wind up toys that cant think for themselves. the police are there to inforce ludicrous laws upon us all without questioning why those laws are there and how they protect the public. they are the goverments inforcers, this makes them a branch of the goverment.


They are far from that. Yes, the goverment may subject them to rules, the state may fund them, but that does not make them a sector of the goverment-far from it. .

Its like us. We are not a sector of the goverment, but they fund things for us- like police and the health service.


Then explain it. It is foolish to state an opinion, without providing the evidence to reinforce it, especially when other people have done just that, in opposition to your view.

To say that the police force exists as an independent organisation, is nothing short of preposterous. In theory, the government is nothing more than a large organisation, with different responsibilities devolved to different parts of the organisation. Yet, these sectors are all interdependent and operate closely with the others, and all answer to an ultimate authority; in this case, Parliament.

The same applies for the Military, the National Health Service, Schools, and various other elements of society.

Again, your are entitled to your (slightly warped) interpretation of the system.
Last edited by Henri on Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Henri
Forum Master
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: Reading, U.K

I did not

Postby k9ruby » Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:03 pm

To say that the police force exists as an indepedent organisation, is nothing short of preposterous. In theory, the government is nothing more than a large organisation, with different responsibilities devolved to different parts of the organisation. Yet, these sectors are all interdependent and operate closely with the others, and all answer to an ultimate authority; in this case, Parliament.


I did not say the police are private. I did not say the nhs are private. Although something may be FUNDED by us, does not make it part of the gcverment.

And, I wouldn't say I'm warped in my opinion. :)

I think it also gives me more weigting that I actually know someone that works for the police, and can get concrete answers from them :)
User avatar
k9ruby
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm

Postby Henri » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:19 pm

In most people's eyes, it does. This is a general standard of knowledge, therefore if you disagree, explain it.

Since you do not appear willing to even attempt to justify your opinion, it is genuinely pointless to carry on this debate. This discussion is over.

Sorry, "I actually know someone that works for the police" just won't cut it.
Henri
Forum Master
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: Reading, U.K

:)

Postby k9ruby » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:34 pm

I knew this would happen.

Sorry, "I actually know someone that works for the police" just won't cut it.


Yes it does. This gives me a more accurate argument, better than just second guessing things- it means I have a accurate insight to what actually goes on inside.

The police are there to prevent crime, not make your life a misery. Laws are there for a reason.
:)

Debate over if you feel unhappy, but I am willing to carry on.

In my experience, people who are against things like CCTV, or continusley argue that we are becoming a "big brother" nation have some involvement at the other side (not the good one!).

I am not suggesting you are a criminal :)

But as I say- if you are inocent, common sense will tell you you have nothing to fear.
User avatar
k9ruby
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm

Postby Henri » Sun Oct 28, 2007 6:56 pm

Then tell us how and why the police force is a seperate entity, use that "accurate insight" and explain yourself, rather than conveying your as of yet indifferent responses to everything. I have already stated this several times. I cannot make it any clearer.

I oppose the introduction of authoritarian measures in this country, simply because I believe in equality, freedom, and a severe limit on the power of the state.
Henri
Forum Master
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: Reading, U.K

public and goverment

Postby k9ruby » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:14 pm

The police, other emergency services, nhs and teachinbg are part of the PUBLIC sector Not the goverment sector.

Can I make it any clearer?
User avatar
k9ruby
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: public and goverment

Postby Henri » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:21 pm

k9ruby wrote:The police, other emergency services, nhs and teachinbg are part of the PUBLIC sector Not the goverment sector.

Can I make it any clearer?


We have already established that, it is the definition that differs. There is no such thing as the "Government Sector"; the public sector is completely directed by the state, and paid for by the tax-payer.

I have retrieved a clear definition of the role of the public sector:

"That part of the economy which is owned or controlled by the public, usually through government agencies".[/i]
Last edited by Henri on Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Henri
Forum Master
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: Reading, U.K

goverment sector

Postby k9ruby » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:21 pm

The Goverment sectors are:

* Business Link
* Directgov
* Cabinet Office
* UK Resilience - guide to emergencies
* Department for Children, Schools and Families
* Department for Communities and Local Government
* Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills
* Department for Transport
* Department of Health
* Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
o UK Trade & Investment
o UK Foresight
* Food Standards Agency
* Foreign and Commonwealth Office
o EU & Economic Section, British Embassy, Berlin
* Forestry Commission
* Health & Safety Executive
o HSE Direct
* HM Revenue and Customs
o Trade Information Service
* HM Treasury
o Office of Government Commerce
* Ministry of Justice
* National School of Government
* Home office
* National Assembly for Wales
* OnlineNI (Northern Ireland citizen portal)
* Scottish Government
* 10 Downing Street

Do you see the police on that list?
Last edited by k9ruby on Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
k9ruby
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm

basically

Postby k9ruby » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:24 pm

Basically->

Although the police is funded by the home office, but the police itself is not an actual sector of the goverment.

:)

I'm tring to explain? Am I getting nearer?
Last edited by k9ruby on Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
k9ruby
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm

Re: goverment sector

Postby Henri » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:25 pm

k9ruby wrote:The Goverment sectors are:

* Business Link
* Directgov
* Cabinet Office
* UK Resilience - guide to emergencies
* Department for Children, Schools and Families
* Department for Communities and Local Government
* Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills
* Department for Transport
* Department of Health
* Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
o UK Trade & Investment
o UK Foresight
* Food Standards Agency
* Foreign and Commonwealth Office
o EU & Economic Section, British Embassy, Berlin
* Forestry Commission
* Health & Safety Executive
o HSE Direct
* HM Revenue and Customs
o Trade Information Service
* HM Treasury
o Office of Government Commerce
* Ministry of Justice
* National School of Government
* Home office
* National Assembly for Wales
* OnlineNI (Northern Ireland citizen portal)
* Scottish Government
* 10 Downing Street


I can detect at least two entities, in that list, that have a profound and influential effect on the role of the police force.
Henri
Forum Master
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: Reading, U.K

But

Postby k9ruby » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:26 pm

But, are the police on that list?
User avatar
k9ruby
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2379
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm

Postby intowiz » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:25 pm

what magical world do you live in where the law and crime are both black and white, police good people who dont follow are bad? what are you taking? also your blunt argument of are the police on there has just been defeasted because two controlling bodies are on the list as henri has pointed out.
"Dance on, lads, you're young; I was once."
Old manx sailor, Moby dick
User avatar
intowiz
The Cat's Pajamas !!
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:43 am

Re: But

Postby Henri » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:06 pm

k9ruby wrote:But, are the police on that list?


The people who direct what the police do are on that list, is it really that hard to comprehend?
Henri
Forum Master
 
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 3:19 pm
Location: Reading, U.K

PreviousNext

Return to News and Current Events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron